121–129 of 129 posts
This is ultimately why I believe Elon Musk isn't the right guy to lead Tesla anymore and hasn't been for a while. Car companies live and die by attracting new customers but also by bringing back existing customers. Lots of car brands bend over backwards to keep you coming back. When you fail to deliver what you've promised or significantly raise prices without delivering value in return, you're not building a loyal c…
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> The driver has to be liable, until the L5 system has lower error-rate than a human. Which that was promised to be completed in 2020. Where are the Level 5 robotaxis that Elon was confident enough to release by that year? > For regulatory and liability reasons, it should be registered as an L2 until it's perfect. And FSD was advertised as Level 5 by Tesla and was due to be complete by 2020 deadline. Even before that…
FSD is a level 5 system, but it just has too high error rate to give it full control. It's a beta software for a level 5 system. Level 5 means that the system is designed for autonomous driving in every situation. It's not a metric whether the system actually works. There will be multiple level 5 systems on the road some day, and some of them will make mistakes more than others. Just like all technology and software,…
Level 5 defines that the system is so reliable that there is zero intervention of the driver and that there is no need for them to be fully attentive behind the wheel as defined by the SAE [0]; exactly the requirement of a robo-taxi. This was advertised by Tesla with claims of robo-taxis by 2020, with a fake taxi app for marketing the scam.
> Yes, Elon overpromised and they failed to deliver in time.
And yet he continues to play the pied piper with more false promises. Like these claims and promises:
"Tesla's Full Self-Driving tech will have Level 5 autonomy by the end of 2021" [0]
"FSD will be capable of driving the car anywhere under any conditions with no need for human interaction." [0]
> Today, FSD is already insanely good and can drive 99% of time without human intervention.
Even the Tesla fans and FSD beta testers dispute this vacuous claim and that figure is significantly lower, given that it completely doesn't work in the most dangerous time to drive which is at night and in other conditions as well. As long as it still requires the driver to be always attentive behind the wheel with FSD on, it is not "Level 5 Full Self Driving" which was advertised by Elon Musk and Tesla but it is absolutely Level 2.
> It's still not good enough, and it's multiple years late from original forecasts. Still, I wouldn't call it a scam.
You need to snap out of the pied piper's scam and realise that FSD is an on-going scam, compensating their false promises for more price increases and forever promises.
[0] https://www.sae.org/binaries/content/assets/cm/content/blog/...
[1] https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/elon-musk-full-self-drivi...
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FSD is a level 5 system, but it just has too high error rate to give it full control. It's a beta software for a level 5 system. Level 5 means that the system is designed for autonomous driving in every situation. It's not a metric whether the system actually works. There will be multiple level 5 systems on the road some day, and some of them will make mistakes more than others. Just like all technology and software,…
> FSD is a level 5 system, but it just has too high error rate to give it full control. It's a beta software for a level 5 system. Level 5 defines that the system is so reliable that there is zero intervention of the driver and that there is no need for them to be fully attentive behind the wheel as defined by the SAE [0]; exactly the requirement of a robo-taxi. This was advertised by Tesla with claims of robo-taxis…
Progress this year has been pretty amazing. If they didn't progress or didn't try to make it work, then I'd call it a scam.
You're not reading that SAR chart right. If you look at the features and examples, FSD is level 5 in there. That's what the system is designed to do. It's not a lane assistant or a traffic jam chauffer. Again, it's level 2 only because it's beta and requires supervision, and the driver is liable for any mistakes.
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It would seem the market (and more current engineering and design reviews) disagrees with you!
The market considered NFTs highly valuable too, until it didn't.
It’s like comparing the productivity of a med student on Adderall in a quiet library, and the productivity of a peeled russet potato sitting in the sun.
Paid 7k for mine, I enjoy it. When I buy my next Tesla wouldn’t pay for it though. The thing that would make it worth buying at this price is when I can send the car 200 miles away to like go pick up my parents or something. Anything short of not being in the car though is just a party trick.
Do you actually have FSD? My understanding is most people who paid for it haven't been allowed to actually install the software yet.
Basically it's an open beta, if you pass their minigame test for 30 days, you can get in and have FSD.
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> FSD is a level 5 system, but it just has too high error rate to give it full control. It's a beta software for a level 5 system. Level 5 defines that the system is so reliable that there is zero intervention of the driver and that there is no need for them to be fully attentive behind the wheel as defined by the SAE [0]; exactly the requirement of a robo-taxi. This was advertised by Tesla with claims of robo-taxis…
It drives just fine at night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCTssX2VdKA Progress this year has been pretty amazing. If they didn't progress or didn't try to make it work, then I'd call it a scam. You're not reading that SAR chart right. If you look at the features and examples, FSD is level 5 in there. That's what the system is designed to do. It's not a lane assistant or a traffic jam chauffer. Again, it's level 2…
It should have been complete years ago in 2020, at Level 5 FSD; so what do you mean about 'progress'? After missing more deadlines and claims, the price of FSD increases again despite the multiple malfunctions from lots of testers.
One example of a devoted Tesla fan / investor (Whole Mars Catalog) doing controlled experiments and driving around the same San Francisco street(s) is hardly a generic case of the whole situation.
> You're not reading that SAR chart right
I have read it correctly and Tesla FSD is still not Level 5 as advertised and by definition of the SAE chart.
Even in the video the driver is still paying full attention and has to continuously intervene by touching and guiding the steering wheel. They still have their attention and their eyes on the road which is not required for a Level 5 robot-taxi FSD system supposedly due for 2020.
So Tesla knows they are selling a Level 2 system still requiring the full attention of the driver and still not even close to the Level 5 robo-taxi claims, but was marketed as Level 5 anyway to mislead their customers with the help of their loyal fans doing videos of controlled experiments to fool new customers into purchasing an unfinished product.
Given it frequently malfunctions, the generic excuse is: ‘With each update, it gets better’,‘There is potential, buy it now before the price increases again’ or ‘It will get better soon, its early days’.
It is clearly not early days and we have given it enough time to be Level 5 FSD and it still isn't close even if they were given up to this year to finish it. So it is definitely a piped piper scam selling false promises to their customers. If this was a different company, there would be class action lawsuits all over this.
You need to really snap out of it.
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>It happened when it couldn’t tell wether the shadow of over cross bridge from a physical object. Who could have predicted that just relying just on cameras was not a good solution ? Definitely not the hundreds of researchers that told Musk that a LIDAR was necessary.
Idk why people preach this a gospel. There are billions of living things, some of which ( peregrine falcon, cheetah etc)do high way speeds and do fine relying on optics. The only animals that rely on sonar are those that live in the dark. There are insects with pea brains which rely on vision. I’m not saying it is proof that only vision works, but to argue against it requires more than platitudes.
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Idk why people preach this a gospel. There are billions of living things, some of which ( peregrine falcon, cheetah etc)do high way speeds and do fine relying on optics. The only animals that rely on sonar are those that live in the dark. There are insects with pea brains which rely on vision. I’m not saying it is proof that only vision works, but to argue against it requires more than platitudes.
They have two eyes close together that do tracking of depth. Plus they have ears and touch, multiple types of sensor synthesis that the Tesla doesn’t even come close to having with a plain old video camera.
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They have two eyes close together that do tracking of depth. Plus they have ears and touch, multiple types of sensor synthesis that the Tesla doesn’t even come close to having with a plain old video camera.
Tesla cars do depth tracking with cameras. How else does it know to slow down when the car infront of it stops?