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Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

bloomberg.com

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Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#121

Post by zone411 »

elif wrote: post #36

The perspective of this piece is a little suspicious: -ferrari still maintain that they will never produce electric cars -the concept of hub motors is a fad that has come and largely gone. Putting the motors inside the wheels leads to reliability concerns -motors with smaller diameter will need more power for the same performance of a larger diameter motor, and the battery is the heavy part Normally each of these i'd…

This is no longer true about Ferrari.

"Ferrari’s first all-electric car will arrive in 2025."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-ferraris-plan-to-enter-t...

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#122

Post by rmason »

xbmcuser wrote: post #103
NoPicklez wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regards to your general rule statement. There has been a lot of discussion/reporting around the manufacturing and design of Tesla cars that is way behind that of the likes of Toyota, Nissan and Honda. The computer systems are state of the art, but in with regards to the design and manufacturing of its chassis, Tesla has been historically behind the times. Just because Tesla doesn’t do it, doesn’t mean it’s not t…

Partly I agree and its the reason I have been disappointed specially in Toyota trying to protect it cash cow and supply chain. They are not really getting into electric cars. Even today they are trying to hedge with hydrogen fuel cars its as they feel hydrogen cars will require the least amount of changes for their supply chain.

Toyota made the largest bet on hydrogen of any car manufacturer. They stubbornly stuck to it and were slow in developing EV's. They're playing fast catchup but will be a few years behind everyone else. What that costs them in market share is anyone's guess. I thought the laggard would be Chrysler/Stellantis but they're getting set to introduce a number of models starting next year.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/18/toyota-ramps-up-efforts-to-l...

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#123

Post by dmitriid »

gzer0 wrote: post #80
gridder wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Tesla doesn’t offer LiDAR sensors, even if it’s clearly the best technology to use for the autopilot.

Not even close. Psuedo-LiDAR approach is the way to go and everyone knows it. Waymo and others using LiDAR placed the wrong bet and now have nothing to show for it.

Except, you know, in parts of the world that are not sunny California. Your camera will mean nothing in the Nordics/Canada with snow/slush/dirt on the road, and the sun shining straight at you.

But sure, do tell me how you're going to ignore the laws of physics and see a road sign, a kid, or a deer when your camera is blind.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#124

Post by hoseja »

gridder wrote: post #17
clouddrover wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a general rule, if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant. That's not a very good rule. There a lots of things Tesla doesn't do. - Tesla doesn't do battery swaps, but NIO does. NIO's done it 10 million times: https://www.nio.com/blog/nio-users-china-have-completed-10-m... - Tesla doesn't do 350…

- Tesla doesn’t offer LiDAR sensors, even if it’s clearly the best technology to use for the autopilot.

Is this a sarcastic joke? Surely you can't mean that.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#125

Post by ohgodplsno »

ajmurmann wrote: post #106
albertopv wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you buy a Ferrari you buy an experience, history etc, engine sound is good part of that experience. No way Ferrari will be banned for noise or pollution. On road a Ferrari noise is quite low when running low speed. Pollution is non existent for cars that drive few kms per year.

Honda Civic Type Rs have a speaker system that makes more impressive engine sounds for the driver. Maybe Ferrari can go with that

Cars like the Lamborghini Urus do that and replay fake engine sounds through the speakers, and it's an absolute abomination

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#126

Post by ohgodplsno »

alliao wrote: post #55
throwawaylinux wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a "climate pledge", nor do I need to move to a smaller or less powerful car or demand that anybody else change their lifestyle. What I will do is keep an eye on what the ultra-rich "experts" who seem to be most concerned about climate change do. When they give up their mansions and yachts and islands and private jets, eat bugs and teleconference to Bilderberg, that's when I might reconsider my lifestyle.…

I was driving along E80 from Nice to Genoa once, in a fairly standard diesel stick Audi A4 rental. I drove fairly normally at start, but then many cars kept passing me and in a typical Italian fashion with plenty of directional signals. There was no consistency, sometimes they would indicate right seemingly to suggest they want to pass, sometimes they indicate left seemingly suggesting the other car to move aside, bu…

To be fair, italian highways are a terrifying zone of lawlessness and dangerous drivers, Ferraris or not.

-- A traumatized french driver

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#127

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #38
it_citizen wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Climate change reports are all pretty clear we need to move to smaller, less powerful cars to meet our climate pledges. And produce less of them. I think starting to see cars as a simple mean to go from A to B instead of a symbol of freedom, status or virility would really be a huge win. I also hope that on the long run it would help more city dwellers accept the idea of sharing cars instead of owning one. Collective…

I don't have a "climate pledge", nor do I need to move to a smaller or less powerful car or demand that anybody else change their lifestyle. What I will do is keep an eye on what the ultra-rich "experts" who seem to be most concerned about climate change do. When they give up their mansions and yachts and islands and private jets, eat bugs and teleconference to Bilderberg, that's when I might reconsider my lifestyle.…

> the signal from those experts is crystal clear: climate change is a non-issue.

Wow. Considering that expertise in climate change is given by money rather than, you know, being an actual trained academic in the field, is peak capitalism.

But anyway, assuming they really behave as "experts", yeah, the signal is crystal clear... For them.

It's much less of an issue if you have enough money to move to whatever places in the world remain most livable, keep buying food even if it becomes prohibitive for most people due to crop failures, keep using AC even if it becomes prohibitive for most people due to soaring energy prices, etc.

Doesn't mean that 99.9% of the population won't suffer from climate change.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#128

Post by jacquesm »

nly wrote: post #117
jacquesm wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Toyota isn't large enough to influence the market like that, they will have to cave sooner or later if they want to stay in business.

Toyota are the largest car manufacturer in the world...

Yes, and they are still not large enough for that strategy. You could do it as a monopolist.

Sony has a history of similar hubris, they always ended up adapting to the rest in the long run, usually after losing quite a big chunk of the market to upstarts.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#129

Post by lagadu »

jacquesm wrote: post #112
xbmcuser wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Partly I agree and its the reason I have been disappointed specially in Toyota trying to protect it cash cow and supply chain. They are not really getting into electric cars. Even today they are trying to hedge with hydrogen fuel cars its as they feel hydrogen cars will require the least amount of changes for their supply chain.

Even Toyota isn't large enough to influence the market like that, they will have to cave sooner or later if they want to stay in business.

They already started caving in with the BZ series cars they have planned.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#130

Post by benj111 »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #120
bombcar wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of a motor on each wheel independent has obviously been considered, but what is often ignored is the sprung vs unsprung weight. You could develop a pretty amazing off-road vehicle with independent electric motors in each wheel, but it would be a relatively bumpy ride.

There are several cars that use this already. The issue is not so much ignored; but been dealt with. Multiple EV manufacturers have now successfully used this technology in vehicles. It seems the benefits outweigh the theoretical downsides. Of course the question remains what happens in a high performance car at extreme speeds. But presumably, Ferrari and Mercedes know what they are doing and have considered this as…

You have the wheel separate to the motor, so you just replace the wheel? Just like you don't currently have to remove the brakes when you change a wheel.
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