Imagine what will happen when they start sending deepfake kidnapping ransom videos
To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways
121–130 of 285 posts
Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
We have PK cryptography you know, yubikeys and such.
Yubikeys can be stolen... I take it from the GP's description the access is sensitive enough to require more assurance than that.
I assume the other problem is that public key infrastructure doesn't exist in a lot of places, whereas (almost) everyone has a webcam.
I had the same thought as many on this thread: all biometric identification is basically an arms race that moves along as new ways of gathering biometrics become convenient and ways of faking them are developed. But as you say, yubikeys also have problems. At some point it will probably be a hybrid, e.g. require a known acquaintance to digitally sign a video where you appear together.
Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
This sounds like a great way to get sufficient images/video of you to create a deepfake that could pass this test. Hmmm...
New mandatory security rule: Employees must never turn their heads side to side in a meeting.
Microsoft Teams developed a feature when if you’re using a background and turn sideways, your nose and the back of your head are automatically cut off.
Bug closed, no longer an issue, overcome by events.
Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways
#124Patiently waiting for the government(s) to step in and start providing a modern ID service - a driver license with a built in private key, a fingerprint unlock, and a PIN. The combination of the three can still be defeated by someone following you, stealing the card, lifting fingerprint from a glass, and spying the PIN, but that’s a lot of trouble to go through and online identity fraud will become extinct.
> a driver license with a built in private key
IDs should never be used as secrets. That's like mixing up your username and password.
Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
May I ask what card/Institution? This would be an immediate no for me.
I'd trust the data with a (real, not online) bank more than most other companies like Google. I'd be more worried about people hacking into networked security camera DVRs at stores and cafes and extracting image data from there. Multiple angles. Movement. Some are very high resolution these days. Sometimes they're mounted right on the POS, in your face. Sometimes they're actually in the top bezel of the beverage cool…
> Banks are the hardest way to get this data, not the easiest one.
Is this statement based on data or a hunch? A quick google turns up a lot of bank data breaches.
Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways
#126Patiently waiting for the government(s) to step in and start providing a modern ID service - a driver license with a built in private key, a fingerprint unlock, and a PIN. The combination of the three can still be defeated by someone following you, stealing the card, lifting fingerprint from a glass, and spying the PIN, but that’s a lot of trouble to go through and online identity fraud will become extinct.
> a driver license with a built in private key IDs should never be used as secrets. That's like mixing up your username and password.
What practical problem do you envision with this setup?
Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways
#127Tangentially related but a simple way to bust a chatbot is to ask “What is larger, the Eiffel Tower or a shoe box?”
I remember someone posting a chat thread from one of the more advanced AIs within the last few years wherein they asked it who the president of the US is, and it was not able to answer. Interestingly, this is a question my father would ask patients as a paramedic who was trying to assess people's consciousness. Another would be, "what day of the week is it?". I'd say that these technologies are just like magic - they…
Many contexts in which the president is named in training data are political. And nobody's going to put a chatbot on the web without filtering out political material
Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways
#128Patiently waiting for the government(s) to step in and start providing a modern ID service - a driver license with a built in private key, a fingerprint unlock, and a PIN. The combination of the three can still be defeated by someone following you, stealing the card, lifting fingerprint from a glass, and spying the PIN, but that’s a lot of trouble to go through and online identity fraud will become extinct.
Or by someone kidnapping you and applying a rubber hose to your kidneys until you tell them the PIN.
Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways
#129Long term, the only robust way to solve this is going to involve a remote attestation chain i.e. video that's being signed by the web cam as it's produced, and then transformed/recompressed inside e.g. SGX enclaves or an SEV protected virtual machine that's sending an RA to the other side. Although hard to set up (you need a lot of people to cooperate and CPU vendors have to bring these features back to consumer hard…
Applying technological solutions to social problems hasn't worked a single time before, but SURELY it'll work this time
Encryption and use of signed certificates has certainly been a big help against web fraud. No, it's not perfect, and can't prevent certain kinds of phishing, but it has definitely raised the bar for would-be scammers. It makes it nearly impossible to spoof "amazon.com" in the browser, and it prevents passive snooping on open WiFi.
You can't make it impossible, but you can make it very difficult.
My elderly uncle almost gave $10,000 to a scammer who had convinced him that his nephew was sitting in a jail and needed this money to be paid for his bail. Luckily, he reached out to me for help and I was able to confirm that his nephew was at home, not in jail.
I honestly can't imagine some of the scams that are coming, particularly to the tech-vulnerable, if we don't do SOMETHING to make real-time deepfake video harder than it now is.
Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways
#130Source: I work in the field. This is a current limitation, and an artifact of the data+method but not something that should be relied upon. If we do some adversary modelling, we can find two ways to work around this: 1) actively generate and search for such data; perhaps expensive for small actors but not well equipped malicious ones. 2) wait for deep learning to catch up, e.g. by extending NERFs (neural radiance fie…
> This is a current limitation The thing with any AI/ML tech is that current limitations are always underplayed by proponents. Self-driving cars will come out next year, every year. I'd say that until the tech actually exists, this is a great way to detect live deepfakes. Not using the technique just because maybe sometime in the future it won't work isn't very sound. For an extreme opponent you may need additional s…
It sounded to me like the parent poster wasn't saying not to use it, but simply that it cannot be relied upon. In other words, a deepfake could fail a 'turn sideways' test and that would be useful, but you shouldn't rely on a 'passing' test.