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Technical reasons to choose FreeBSD over GNU/Linux (2020)

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Re: Technical reasons to choose FreeBSD over GNU/Linux (2020)

#121

Post by Dracophoenix »

bxparks wrote: post #20

I have tried learning FreeBSD occasionally, mostly for nostalgia because I learned Unix on BSD 4.3 (or 4.4?) on MicroVaxes many years ago. But I get stuck on some very basic things: - My wifi card doesn't work. The installer recognizes it, but the driver doesn't work. - The console terminal defaults to 80x25, I don't know how to resize it. - I can't figure out how to start X Windows. - If I run it in a VM (e.g. Virtu…

> - My wifi card doesn't work. The installer recognizes it, but the driver doesn't work.

It really depends on your Wi-fi card. If you're installing FreeBSD on bare metal with an Intel card, iwx now supports Wifi 6 and 6E cards. Although, since I haven't tested it myself, I can't say it will work as expected if it works at all.

> - The console terminal defaults to 80x25, I don't know how to resize it.

Select console terminal at the boot screen and type the following:

  gop list
  gop set {mode number}
and then reboot the VM

> - I can't figure out how to start X Windows.

Assuming you've installed the appropriate graphics driver from the pkg or ports repo:

  pkg install xorg
  startx
If you don't have the appropriate graphics driver, proceed to step 8 in the webpage below.

> - If I run it in a VM (e.g. VirtualBox), the network bridging doesn't work so my FreeBSD instance has no internet access.

https://freebsdfoundation.org/freebsd-project/resources/inst...

Step 8 might help.

Re: Technical reasons to choose FreeBSD over GNU/Linux (2020)

#122

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

stiray wrote: post #62

I am using freebsd since version 8 for all my server needs (was using linux, but got repelled by its chaos which I dont care about on my laptop, but it pisses me off on server). Some more points: - bhyve, developed by netapp, they ditched all old technologies support and it works faster on my i5 server than kvm on my i7 laptop. Snapshoting using ZFS is not a feature to discard either. - FIBs, absolute miracle routing…

> jails... docker? Really? Jails are 15+ years old implementation, kernel supported, that stood test of time, actually being a security feature. It runs circles around the docker in everything except how much it was adapted by community. I never understood why people rather used an inferior solution like docker.

Docker has Dockerfiles, layers, and trivial push/pull of images. Compared to those workflow improvements, nobody cares if the guts suck.

Re: Technical reasons to choose FreeBSD over GNU/Linux (2020)

#123

Post by SoftTalker »

intothemild wrote: post #84
ajross wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It runs circles around the docker in everything except how much it was adapted by community. ...except? Meh. People who want to engage in this argument are generally trying to argue about jails vs. the collection of linux container technologies. That's not Docker. Docker won because of Dockerfiles. Docker isn't, at its core, an interesting container technology. Docker is a simple metaphor and programming environmen…

I love FreeBSD and i love Jails, but you're right. Docker won because of simplicity. Dockerfiles make it super simple. There is similar stuff for jails but you need a jails frontend that use it. A few years ago i wanted to build the Jailfile equivalent, call it Warden, and have Warden manage the jails. But honestly i doubt it would get traction outside a small community.

"Simple" is subjective.

Have you ever looked at what Docker puts in your iptables? I challenge you to understand what's happening with your networking after that.

If you want containers, lxc command line and a bit of configuration for a bridge interface is all you really need.

Re: Technical reasons to choose FreeBSD over GNU/Linux (2020)

#124

Post by cyberpunk »

rubyist5eva wrote: post #93
stjohnswarts wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but you can use ZFS on linux?

Yes but it’s clunky. ZFS on FreeBSD is smooth as silk. Ubuntu is the only distro that I would say has good integration with ZFS but I don’t like anything else about Ubuntu.

what linux server distro are you using if not ubuntu lts? Im not a massive fan either but i run thousands of the bastards (k8s hosts) and cant imagine an other...

just disable snap and you're good ;)

Re: Technical reasons to choose FreeBSD over GNU/Linux (2020)

#125

Post by Lapsa »

claudiojulio wrote: post #91
cperciva wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recent WireGuard debacle left a bad taste about this. As it actually turns out, sometimes there is zero technical review for very important patches and a few blessed developers can (and sometimes do) just throw their stuff directly into trunk. This seems like a misunderstanding of the FreeBSD development model. Yes, immature code landed in HEAD, but it was removed before the next release . In general in FreeBSD t…

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/buffer-overruns-lice...

> The three replaced almost all of Macy's code in a mad week-long sprint.

damn....

> Sleep to mitigate race conditions

ouch...

> Validation functions which simply return true

da f*

> strange hexadecimal output spamming the root console of their router

:D

Re: Technical reasons to choose FreeBSD over GNU/Linux (2020)

#126

Post by GekkePrutser »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #122
stiray wrote: post #62

I am using freebsd since version 8 for all my server needs (was using linux, but got repelled by its chaos which I dont care about on my laptop, but it pisses me off on server). Some more points: - bhyve, developed by netapp, they ditched all old technologies support and it works faster on my i5 server than kvm on my i7 laptop. Snapshoting using ZFS is not a feature to discard either. - FIBs, absolute miracle routing…

> jails... docker? Really? Jails are 15+ years old implementation, kernel supported, that stood test of time, actually being a security feature. It runs circles around the docker in everything except how much it was adapted by community. I never understood why people rather used an inferior solution like docker. Docker has Dockerfiles, layers, and trivial push/pull of images. Compared to those workflow improvements,…

> Compared to those workflow improvements, nobody cares if the guts suck.

Some people care, this is why FreeBSD is still around :)

And it's not really relevant if you build your own images anyway. And in fact within the scope of FreeBSD jails offer very similar features, one of the things that's very common to do is make a base image with ZFS and then base all your jails off it. This means you just have to update your base and all your jails are updated. It's similar to pulling the latest alpine with docker. If you embrace the full ecosystem with Bastille you will have very similar capabilities.

The big missing point is that you can't use images from docker hub. This is a big negative but if you already don't plan on using those it's not really a bad thing. And there is increasing resistance to pulling things made by unknown people into production (I'm sure many vulnerabilities will happen in the future as attackers start to take advantage of this).

But anyway it doesn't have to be for everyone. It doesn't have to be the biggest thing around.

Re: Technical reasons to choose FreeBSD over GNU/Linux (2020)

#128

Post by ajross »

SoftTalker wrote: post #123
intothemild wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love FreeBSD and i love Jails, but you're right. Docker won because of simplicity. Dockerfiles make it super simple. There is similar stuff for jails but you need a jails frontend that use it. A few years ago i wanted to build the Jailfile equivalent, call it Warden, and have Warden manage the jails. But honestly i doubt it would get traction outside a small community.

"Simple" is subjective. Have you ever looked at what Docker puts in your iptables? I challenge you to understand what's happening with your networking after that. If you want containers, lxc command line and a bit of configuration for a bridge interface is all you really need.

> If you want containers, [...] is all you really need.

And that is the attitude embraced by jails (to be clear: rather more cleanly and attractively than the expression of the same ideas in linux), and precisely why it lost.

No one wants "containers". They want docker. They want to be handed something that looks no more threatening than a mid-80's build script and have it magically be it's own little world with all its own software and versions and stuff, but still talk to the rest of the world on the same networks from the same piece of hardware (yes, via some weird voodoo to glue all that together).

It's like arguing that no one needs word processing because nroff or LaTeX is all you need. It's not wrong. It's just a failure in the market.

Re: Technical reasons to choose FreeBSD over GNU/Linux (2020)

#129

Post by GekkePrutser »

stormbrew wrote: post #69
stiray wrote: post #62

I am using freebsd since version 8 for all my server needs (was using linux, but got repelled by its chaos which I dont care about on my laptop, but it pisses me off on server). Some more points: - bhyve, developed by netapp, they ditched all old technologies support and it works faster on my i5 server than kvm on my i7 laptop. Snapshoting using ZFS is not a feature to discard either. - FIBs, absolute miracle routing…

Some of this may be true, though I have some disagreements about the accuracy of some (and also the issue that "Linux" is a broad target and some of these apply more or less to different distributions or os'), but freebsd definitely had its share if chaos in its history. The fbsd4-6 era was a difficult one to navigate and it's basically where I feel off the freebsd bandwagon.

Me too, at FreeBSD 6. ZFS was also pretty new and unstable in those days. I upgraded and could no longer read my pools.

But I came back to it in the last few years and it's matured a lot.

Re: Technical reasons to choose FreeBSD over GNU/Linux (2020)

#130

Post by Koshkin »

johnklos wrote: post #28

The article hits the nail on the head about Linux' "mismatches". When distros need to be different gratuitously, you can no longer get a book on Linux that meaningfully applies across multiple distros. Heck, even an Ubuntu book would be irrelevant after a few changes (16 -> 18, 18 -> 20). The same people who respond in the community to questions about changes often respond to defend the changes, but rarely respond wi…

> distros need to be different gratuitously

I, on the other hand, tend to think of distributions as operating systems in their own right, so the difference between them is something I welcome - otherwise what’s the point?

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