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The endless search for a crypto use case

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Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#121

Post by snarf21 »

snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

I used to think there were use cases but not anymore. Currency is the only possible one but since it is digital, it leads to the same but different centralization. The days of mining bitcoin in the background and "winning" a full bitcoin are gone.

There is no need for crypto for money laundering when it can be done at scale at Deutsche Bank.

The anonymous use cases are a chicken/egg problem because you still need on/off ramps. but the other issues make global crypto currency a no go.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#122

Post by fortuna86 »

olalonde wrote: post #37
jmyeet wrote: post #7

I agree with basically everything here. There two fundamental problems here: 1. Crypto is being designed by smart engineers who fully understand the financial system. Specifically they don’t understand why it is the way it is. It didn’t just magically appear this way full of obvious flaws. It grew over thousands of years; and 2. Most of the people pushing crypto are honestly just trying to get rich quick. Most missed…

> Specifically they don’t understand why it is the way it is. It didn’t just magically appear this way full of obvious flaws. It grew over thousands of years That's just an argument in defense of status quo. It's actually pretty common for industry outsiders to disrupt old industries. Think Uber/Airbnb/Facebook/Tesla, etc. Thousand year old industries get disrupted all the time.

> Thousand year old industries get disrupted all the time.

They really don't. The fundamentals of banking as an industry haven't changed in hundreds if not thousands of years. Real estate, etc.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#123

Post by snapcaster »

jmyeet wrote: post #10
snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

So illegal stuff. Ok. While there might be cases you consider moral or ethical even though they’re illegal I’m not sure I’d consider this a net positive or any reason to think crypto will enjoy mass adoption.

Right, doing illegal stuff is the killer app is my point. I don't know if it's a net positive either, but it's a positive for some users. I hope it's clear I wasn't advocating for any of these things just pointing to successful applications of the technology

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#124

Post by jjoonathan »

staticassertion wrote: post #21
snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

Agreed, there are use cases, even obvious use cases. Blockchain provides guarantees that other databases do not. They're just guarantees that assume that some portion of people connecting to it are bad actors. Most people don't really care about solving that problem because they just don't give those people access, but that implies a single authority for access ie: centralization. So blockchain only makes sense when:…

I don't think this is so crazy of an idea. Many of our institutions (example: democracy, checks and balances) are designed to "subvert government authority" in exactly the same spirit. The idea is to ensure that some rules are followed regardless of who is in charge.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#125

Post by snapcaster »

amanj41 wrote: post #31
snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

it's a little disingenuous not to put remittance on this list as it's one of the few legitimate and not morally dubious ones. I have gotten screwed on exchange fees and wire fees remitting and using crypto is much easier.

I didn't mention remittance because from people I personally know who send money back home they are getting much lower fees using traditional finance rails

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#126

Post by snapcaster »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #36
snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

I think there's a conflict here though: >If what you're doing isn't likely to be censored by authorities then you're being incredibly wasteful by using blockchain If the wasteful people doing non-crime activities on the blockchain weren't there it'd be incredibly easy for the authorities to crack down. In other words, if the only legitimate use cases of crypto is facilitating crime, it can only even achieve that goal…

This is true. "Virtuous liquidity" is the term I've heard used. The same thing is true of Tor right? if the _only_ people using it are bad the usage itself is what gets criminalized. The speculators on crypto likely provide a lot of this

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#127

Post by Ekaros »

SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #109
immigrantheart wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the only right answer. Pack it up. For real, every time I try to answer my I do crypto, often people just don't understand. They just don't. They just don't understand why I don't trust entities. If you don't understand this, then you don't understand crypto. Period. There is no other debate necessary. Period. Full stop. We go on our own way. Full stop.

The problem is that crypto doesn't really solve those problems either . As the article says far more eloquently. I understand that you are saying you were burned by a central authority. But the truth is that the only way to get everything to work is with a central authority. The article gives examples of crypto being fully reliant on central authorities, for instance. Everything being done by crypto today could be do…

The question to me really is which central authorities you trust less...

And for me it is at the moment the crypto side. I don't trust exchanges and I can't be bothered to do local transactions. So central government "approved" system is easier for my life.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#128

Post by dogman144 »

game-of-throws wrote: post #32
snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

My theory is that the likelihood someone understands the use cases is inversely correlated to their trust in government. For example: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60912789 These articles all follow a common pattern. 1. The trigger – Inflation/distrust in government/bank withdrawal restrictions/paypal freezes your funds/country is at war/etc 2. The response – People gravitate towards a system that is resilient to…

Pretty good answer, but I’ll caveat with wealthy/elite provably bought into this a while ago. A subset of them run OpEds in NYT criticizing the space as bunk. Another large subset have been in it for years.

Some data points to support this:

- most major algorithmic hedge funds, market makers, etc are significantly involved. Not the janky crypto native one, the lethal ones from NY.

- Microstrategy had to convince a whole slew of board members and legal to convert their treasury to btc (“wealthy/elite”). Saylor is on record as saying that all but 1 of them where already on the space and fine with it, or something to that effect.

- this is old days btc lore, but there is a famous known event of Wences Cesares and I want to say Reid Hoffman having a SV get together with a few other who’s-who and sending a couple mil in btc around their phones while sitting in a living room. This And related Got most of the early day big tech people who are in it now to invest. This was years ago. Peter Thiel is the most public of this group today.

- CIA had the btc core lead Dev visit to explain the tech in 2011 (Gavin Andresen/spelling).

- Go to a digital assets event in DC that gets actual DC people to attend, and you’ll have notable elected officials discussing its use as a covert tool

- US has paid foreign fighters in it

- Bank of International Settlements is allowing member banks to hold a % of btc in reserves

- Fidelity has mined btc since early 2010s and is notably involved today.

There are a lot of examples like this out there. It’s a large wealth transfer currently benefiting really top crust people/orgs and the tinfoil hat crowd. Everyone else is reading Paul Krugman opeds and calling it a day, or missing the key so-what of the tech that’s worth committing to.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#129

Post by kaladin_1 »

game-of-throws wrote: post #32
snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

My theory is that the likelihood someone understands the use cases is inversely correlated to their trust in government. For example: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60912789 These articles all follow a common pattern. 1. The trigger – Inflation/distrust in government/bank withdrawal restrictions/paypal freezes your funds/country is at war/etc 2. The response – People gravitate towards a system that is resilient to…

This captures some of the reasons why crypto is very big in Nigeria.

With Naira the currency being as stable as a pendulum gets on a windy day, many middle class fellows seek to store their money in some form of stable assets. Crypto seems to be the easiest to acquire for the common folks while the politicians prefer and have access to US Dollars.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#130

Post by seydor »

snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

i'd start with "porn and nudity". The financial system is extremely hostile to them
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