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In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

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Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#121

Post by rac1smb4D »

_-david-_ wrote: post #85
svnpenn wrote: post #30

I think considering race is fine, depending on how you use that information. If you use it to make the group less diverse, that is bad. If you use it to make the group more diverse, that is good. Does that mean that some students with higher grades/income/whatever get excluded? Yes. However grades shouldn't be the only factor in this decision. It seems that the schools are taking a holistic approach to admittance, an…

Which is more diverse: 1. Admiting a black boy who is living with both parents and who have a net worth of over $100 million 2. Admitting a white boy who grew up in poverty in Appalachia and lived in a single parent household

Black Boy, but who's more deserving on same score? The white boy

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#122

Post by GenerocUsername »

Kuntz Law: in ANY/ALL resource constrained systems, giving advantage to 1 individual directly gives disadvantage to another.

This is true whether it is seats on a bus, distribution of aid money, or college admission.

You cannot give race based preference without simultaneously race based discrimination

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#123

Post by golemotron »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #79
btilly wrote: post #33

To quote from the brief. Unlike applicants whose identities have been affected mainly by their socioeconomic or geographic circumstances, applicants whose formative experiences relate to race or ethnicity would be denied the opportunity to convey their full, authentic selves when competing for admission to selective schools like Amici. And so we guarantee that millions of Americans will have a formative experience th…

I really don't understand current progressive ideology. Apart from discrimination against Asians, there is also the whole "Hijab empowers women" nonsense. I come from a part of the world where women have to fight for the right to take off hijab. They are shunned socially for doing so. In worse places, they can be jailed or beaten. Imagine coming from such a place to America, and seeing here women are wearing that sym…

In the culture wars, it's all about positioning yourself as being of higher moral standing. If you position yourself as being for the downtrodden, you get higher social status. For historical reasons, this can't be done with poverty any more in the US so the playing field is selected race and gender groups.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#124

Post by Ekaros »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #113
dilap wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We discriminated against blacks in the past, so whites and asians deserve to be discriminated against in the present. Is this your position?

> We discriminated against blacks in the past, so whites and asians deserve to be discriminated against in the present. Is this your position? White people took everything for hundreds of years. Then, they turned around and said "Oh look, we own everything but let's just forget about skin color now". Discrimination resulted in massive inequality. The median net worth of a white family is $200k. The median net worth o…

So use that then. Take median wealth of applicants families and discriminate against anyone who is richer. Entirely objective metric.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#125

Post by TameAntelope »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #103
TameAntelope wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Racism is the belief that one race is superior in some way or another What's going on is discriminating and prejudicing on the basis of race. We can call that racism or anti-racism or peanuts & bananas, it doesn't change what the thing is. A person being advantaged or disadvantaged, being treated differently, on the basis of the race, something they had no control over nor consent to.

No post body was provided.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#126

Post by treeman79 »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #91
Invictus0 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ivy leagues today are anything but diverse in thought, this should be obvious. What actually exists is a repressive liberal orthodoxy, and no dissent is tolerated. I ought to expand on this since this comment will surely be controversial. I make no comment on which view is right or wrong; but suppose the conservative view were favored, and any disagreement with the ideology got your fired from your job, publicly…

[flagged]

It’s group think. Or in Reddit terms a circle jerk.

Bunch of people surrounding themselves with like minded people and driving away anyone who disagrees.

Try being a professor on some of theses campuses and claiming that men can’t get pregnant. A position that was the norm for thousands of years until what 5-15 years ago?

You’ll be burned at the stake for disputing the “science” now.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#127

Post by MSFT_Edging »

aceHN wrote: post #48

If your goal is equal opportunity you can look at socioeconomic class without considering race. Fundamentally the idea that race must be considered to achieve diversity is an inherently racist idea - you don't believe some races will get in without help.

In the US, race is very much tied to socioeconomic status and class.

It's not a 100% indicator, but its essentially what the quoteunquote CRT in schools was meant to show.

Many black communities are not poor simply because they're poor, but of on-the-books policies of redlining, discrimination, and overpolicing that enabled a wealth gap to form in the post-war period. Many white families were able to buy houses, build generational wealth, etc while many black communities were prevented from buying homes, getting loans, all the way to their neighborhoods being wholesale demolished for highways, malls, power plants, etc.

Being colorblind has the byproduct of ignoring real material policies and historic events that contribute to modern conditions. It is a fact that generational wealth enables rich students to afford SAT prep classes, have parents that can take them to extra curricular activities, and have the ability to not need a job during their teenage years.

Race-based affirmative action is meant to equal out these factors to an extent. Whether it works as intended is another matter.

Cases of "Working hard" and "picking yourself up by the bootstraps" is statistically negligible in the grand scheme.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#128

Post by TameAntelope »

zmgsabst wrote: post #112
TameAntelope wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Yes — and the context of this conversation is discrimination in college applications, against Asians.

No post body was provided.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#129

Post by zmgsabst »

tomrod wrote: post #110
zmgsabst wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes — you’re discriminating against Asians by privileging blacks in selection. That’s what makes this racism.

Ah, you agree with me. Great. You're just missing that bigotry of an individual is not equivalent to a systemic policy.

No — individuals can still be racist.

But we’re discussing systemic racism against Asians in college admissions, so that’s an irrelevant distinction.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#130

Post by rjbwork »

news_to_me wrote: post #80
tomrod wrote: post #2

I didn't realize college admissions' affirmative action had reached SCOTUS. I wonder what the outcome will be. Key summary: > "Today Yale joined peer institutions in stating emphatically that student diversity is essential to the missions of American universities and promotes educational excellence for all students,” President Peter Salovey said. “Our amicus curiae brief makes clear that the way we consider race and…

I don't think it's possible to have meaningful diversity of thought without diversity of background. That spans many attributes—race, economic status, where you grew up, etc. Race is obviously an important one, given how much it changes many people's experiences and perceptions. I think diverse racial representation is important, but is maybe better viewed as an indicator of success rather than a metric to optimize.…

I think I tend to agree. The place to put the thumb on the scales is pre-k-12, especially early on.

If we look at purely merit metrics at the bottom of the funnel at university, then based on the approach these universities are taking, Asians will have the best merit metrics, and Blacks the worst. I fail to see how this could possibly promote a good social outcome. People are going to notice and stereotyping is going to kick in.

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