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AMD passes Intel in market cap

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Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#121

Post by adam_arthur »

unethical_ban wrote: post #27
huangc10 wrote: post #13

Remember the days when AMD was like $3/share and Intel was like crushing it. The world really has changed in the last decade.

I bought at $5 and sold at 15 thinking I was so clever. Then I bought at 80 and held through 160, now it's at 96. I'm a long term bull on AMD, but I think the rocket left the atmosphere already. To me it's a blue chip. Intel nor AMD will ever go out of business, unless and until x86 itself dies and neither can pivot. AMD has a lock on consoles, it is the only competitor to Intel in x86, it basically can't go out of b…

Cloud vendors have been increasingly pushing their own chips. It's hard to see AMD having any pricing power in the long run, unless their chips are significantly better than what big tech can create on their own

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#122

Post by r00fus »

itsoktocry wrote: post #59
njarboe wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top ten automakers have huge amounts of debt and pension liabilities. Tesla has neither. None of them are making profitable EVs at scale. Tesla has been hitting their goal of growing at 50% per year for a decade and plans to continue until they are making 20 million cars a year in 2030. Their gross margin on cars is the highest in the industry. The next 5 years are critical for the existing players and many will…

> The top ten automakers have huge amounts of debt They have huge amounts of debt because they run huge financing departments and therefore also have a huge number of assets on the balance sheet. > Their gross margin on cars is the highest in the industry. They have a completely different sales model, so it's apples to oranges. Most OEMs wholesale cars to dealers, of course those margins will be smaller. > Tesla has…

> >Their gross margin on cars is the highest in the industry.

> They have a completely different sales model, so it's apples to oranges. Most OEMs wholesale cars to dealers, of course those margins will be smaller.

This is the crux of the innovator dilemma - that their dealer sales model was a moat to prevent new entrants, and it could be their lodestone as well, preventing them from actually being able to compete with Tesla (since shifting from that will likely prove to be difficult/impossible).

Doesn't hurt Tesla that dealers are notoriously unpopular with customers.

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#123

Post by enragedcacti »

victor106 wrote: post #110
ssharp wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bill the commenter was mentioning is currently in the Senate and hasn't been voted on yet. It would bring back the $7,500 credit for any EV that is built in the U.S. and removes the 200,000 limit. The bill also changes the mechanics of the credit so that it is applied immediately off the purchase price rather than a tax credit whenever you file. It also allows for up to a $4,000 credit on used EV's.

Got it, Is there anything in the bill that excludes Tesla from access to those credits?

Here is the summarized set of rules:

    Federal tax credit for EVs will remain at $7,500

        Tax credit cap for automakers after they hit 200,000 EVs sold is eliminated, making GM, Tesla and Toyota once again eligible

        The language in the bill indicates that the tax credit would be implemented at the point of sale instead of on taxes at the end of the fiscal year

        In order to get the full credit, the EV must be assembled in North America, the majority of battery components need to come from North America, and contain a certain percentage of minerals from countries with free trade agreements with the US

    Includes a new federal tax credit of $4,000 for used EVs

    Includes zero-emission vans, SUVs, and trucks with MSRPs up to $80,000

    Electric sedans priced up to $55,000 MSRP also qualify

    The full electric vehicle tax credit will be available to individuals reporting adjusted gross incomes of $150,000 or less, or $300,000 for joint filers
https://electrek.co/2022/07/29/which-electric-vehicles-still...

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#124

Post by kbenson »

ssharp wrote: post #108
victor106 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a stealth bailout of the domestic auto industry with a $7500 tax credit on cars that have just $750 worth of batteries in them. As it currently stands the $7500 limit is only for the first 200,000 cars. Tesla benefited a lot from it and exhausted its limit back in 2018. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-tax-credit/tesla-hi...

The bill the commenter was mentioning is currently in the Senate and hasn't been voted on yet. It would bring back the $7,500 credit for any EV that is built in the U.S. and removes the 200,000 limit. The bill also changes the mechanics of the credit so that it is applied immediately off the purchase price rather than a tax credit whenever you file. It also allows for up to a $4,000 credit on used EV's.

> $7,500 credit for any EV that is built in the U.S

> It also allows for up to a $4,000 credit on used EV's.

I can't wait for the eventual headline about how dealerships would sell cars to themselves so they could resell them and pocket an extra $4k.

I have no doubt that story will happen and come out, I'm just wondering whether it will be during or after it's common, and how widespread the abuse will be, given that even if there are provisions to prevent that, some enterprising fraudsters will find a way.

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#125

Post by rsp1984 »

Call me crazy but I think long term (10 years +) the Intel strategy of fabricating chips domestically is the correct choice. There's a ton of geopolitical pressure in this direction. The US simply doesn't want to be dependent on Taiwan for chips, for obvious reasons.

Intel knows this and is trying to become the TSMC of the west. And frankly they're the only ones that can pull it off. I'd be surprised if 10 years from now the majority of their revenue comes from selling processors rather than fabricating them for AMD, NVIDIA, etc. Why compete when there's plenty of steak for everyone?

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#126

Post by beeboop »

asdajksah2123 wrote: post #92
parkingrift wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that Tesla can continue to grow 50% YoY as soon as 2023. The Model S, X, and Y are extremely expensive compared to the competition. I’m in the market for an electric SUV right now. The Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5 both seem legitimately better than the Model Y, and they are substantially less expensive. The Model Y AWD Long Range is $68,000. The Ioniq 5 SEL is $52,000. Tesla has historically never had to compe…

Tesla is still making poor quality cars. No other car I've seen spends as much time in repairs as Teslas do.

Source?

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#127

Post by lelanthran »

manquer wrote: post #72
unethical_ban wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought at $5 and sold at 15 thinking I was so clever. Then I bought at 80 and held through 160, now it's at 96. I'm a long term bull on AMD, but I think the rocket left the atmosphere already. To me it's a blue chip. Intel nor AMD will ever go out of business, unless and until x86 itself dies and neither can pivot. AMD has a lock on consoles, it is the only competitor to Intel in x86, it basically can't go out of b…

With increasing ARM both on servers and laptops(Macs) x86 itself may wane in marketshare .

> With increasing ARM both on servers and laptops(Macs) x86 itself may wane in marketshare .

Not a problem - they both (Intel and AMD) make ARM chips too, don't they?

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#128

Post by RC_ITR »

njarboe wrote: post #51
elromulous wrote: post #18

So I'm very much in camp AMD. But, market cap has proven over and over again to be kind of bogus. E.g. do we really think Tesla is actually worth more than the rest of the top 10 or so automakers?

The top ten automakers have huge amounts of debt and pension liabilities. Tesla has neither. None of them are making profitable EVs at scale. Tesla has been hitting their goal of growing at 50% per year for a decade and plans to continue until they are making 20 million cars a year in 2030. Their gross margin on cars is the highest in the industry. The next 5 years are critical for the existing players and many will…

The real criticism of Tesla is that there are about 65m cars sold per year now globally.

If every one of those cars has $10k of profit (way too high, but for arguments sake), that’s $650bn of profit per year.

When a single company with less than 1% share of sales has a market cap higher than the entire theoretical annual profits of an industry, that implies an insane amount of speculation (about things like Robo taxis and insurance, etc)

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#129

Post by [deleted] »

namecheapTA wrote: post #81
sbf501 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is implicit when understanding market cap. Market cap means yes, a certain number of people willing to buy Tesla believe it is worth the combined cap of the next 10 auto makers. It doesn't matter if that is right or wrong, all that matters is that stock traders believe it. If they didn't, the stock wouldn't be that price. That is literally how the stock market / market cap works: if someone will buy it at that p…

I know several people that bought Tesla stock in the last 3 years, and I know for sure that none of them think about it in terms of being worth more than most of the other companies or combined. They bought the stock because they like the cars, see the cars often, and most importantly, they think the stock will rise and make them money. They don't know how many outstanding shares there are, what the market cap is rel…

[deleted]

Re: AMD passes Intel in market cap

#130

Post by matthewfcarlson »

tyree731 wrote: post #107
itsoktocry wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The top ten automakers have huge amounts of debt They have huge amounts of debt because they run huge financing departments and therefore also have a huge number of assets on the balance sheet. > Their gross margin on cars is the highest in the industry. They have a completely different sales model, so it's apples to oranges. Most OEMs wholesale cars to dealers, of course those margins will be smaller. > Tesla has…

> They have a completely different sales model, so it's apples to oranges. Most OEMs wholesale cars to dealers, of course those margins will be smaller. Well yes, but they've been successful with this sales model, and sell cars all the same, so that makes them more valuable in comparison.

Anecdotally, we bought a Tesla a few years ago and it was awesome. Just buy it online, walk up, unlocks with your phone, and drive away. My spouse (a very socially anxious person who despises car dealerships) loved it and said if it made sense, she would never buy a car anywhere else. Granted, the same experience is rolling out for traditional cars (carvana, carmax, etc).
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