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S3 isn't getting cheaper

matt-rickard.com

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Re: S3 isn't getting cheaper

#121

Post by jamesfinlayson »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #88
fleddr wrote: post #68

Storage price reductions slowing down or even coming to a halt makes me wonder what this means for "infinite storage" companies. I'm talking services like Facebook, Youtube, that are "free" (ad supported) where on a daily basis an absurd amount of new content is added, yet almost nothing ever removed. If storage needs grow endlessly yet storage costs stopped going down, wouldn't that mean that the model in the long t…

This is a huge concern for me too. I suspect that FB and Youtube will start auto-deleting old content that people haven't seen in the last X months.

I've noticed pictures in Facebook Messenger getting compressed after three or six months. I'm not sure if this is new or if it's just more aggressive now.

Re: S3 isn't getting cheaper

#122

Post by gsanderson »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #103
gsanderson wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The margin on bandwidth is enormous. I think Cloudflare did some research into it a while back. But there are rivals providing cheaper S3-compatible storage at scale. Cloudflare's R2 ($15/TB, and no fees for egress). Oracle Cloud Storage ($25/TB, and first 10TB of egress is free). There's Wasabi ($5.99/TB, and no fees for egress or API requests). To name but three. Of course each of those have drawbacks e.g Wasabi is…

I didn't realize Cloudflare R2 was available yet. Took a look based on your mention... "currently in beta". But you can still just sign up and use it already? Anyone here done that and want to report back? Ah, I found this posted by it's author elsewhere in these threads: https://www.vantage.sh/blog/cloudflare-r2-aws-s3-comparison Very useful. Wait.... "no public access" AND "no pre-signed URLs"? Am I misunderstandin…

I haven't used it either but it certainly sounds like it's open to anyone to use. As @chc mentions, it reads like you use a Worker to control access. So you can make your files public by simply not requiring any authentication. I've just been scrolling through their getting started guide. It looks promising: https://developers.cloudflare.com/r2/get-started

Re: S3 isn't getting cheaper

#123

Post by camhart »

chc wrote: post #112
jrochkind1 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't realize Cloudflare R2 was available yet. Took a look based on your mention... "currently in beta". But you can still just sign up and use it already? Anyone here done that and want to report back? Ah, I found this posted by it's author elsewhere in these threads: https://www.vantage.sh/blog/cloudflare-r2-aws-s3-comparison Very useful. Wait.... "no public access" AND "no pre-signed URLs"? Am I misunderstandin…

I haven't used it, but my understanding from reading about it is that the intended use-case is to create a Worker (roughly equivalent to an AWS Lambda) that mediates access to the bucket. So you could have the worker provide public access, or have the worker do some kind of authentication — you just have to roll that part yourself.

They plan on adding features so you don't need to use workers.

See the last section of this article: https://blog.cloudflare.com/r2-open-beta/

Re: S3 isn't getting cheaper

#124

Post by toolz »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #119
luhn wrote: post #106

AWS's pricing strategy changed a few years ago. Previously, they'd drop prices aggressively with much fanfare every time they did. Nowadays, they almost never drop prices, but release new offerings they say will save money [for certain use cases]: - Gravitron 2 is slightly cheaper than Intel instances, with a greater price/performance ratio—at least for some applications. - m6i is same price as m5, but new generation…

This is how every market player is incentivized to behave, apart from regulatory authorities acting to prosecute monopolistic behavior. 1. Price and compete aggressively to grow market share, put competitors out of business, and even transform the market, if possible 2. Once you become the dominant player (i.e. a monopoly), raise prices (or don't lower them) as much as possible without damaging your market position T…

There have been 9 antitrust lawsuits filed against big tech in the past two years, what are you suggesting should there be more of?

Re: S3 isn't getting cheaper

#125

Post by jrochkind1 »

camhart wrote: post #123
chc wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't used it, but my understanding from reading about it is that the intended use-case is to create a Worker (roughly equivalent to an AWS Lambda) that mediates access to the bucket. So you could have the worker provide public access, or have the worker do some kind of authentication — you just have to roll that part yourself.

They plan on adding features so you don't need to use workers. See the last section of this article: https://blog.cloudflare.com/r2-open-beta/

Thanks!

Also interesting to see that a future goal is: "Integration with Cloudflare’s cache, to scale read requests and provide global distribution of data."

I had wrongly assumed that would be the whole point of R2, that it would do that out the gate!

Re: S3 isn't getting cheaper

#126

Post by kortilla »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #119
luhn wrote: post #106

AWS's pricing strategy changed a few years ago. Previously, they'd drop prices aggressively with much fanfare every time they did. Nowadays, they almost never drop prices, but release new offerings they say will save money [for certain use cases]: - Gravitron 2 is slightly cheaper than Intel instances, with a greater price/performance ratio—at least for some applications. - m6i is same price as m5, but new generation…

This is how every market player is incentivized to behave, apart from regulatory authorities acting to prosecute monopolistic behavior. 1. Price and compete aggressively to grow market share, put competitors out of business, and even transform the market, if possible 2. Once you become the dominant player (i.e. a monopoly), raise prices (or don't lower them) as much as possible without damaging your market position T…

> This is why it's so important, especially in the US, for government to begin aggressively enforcing antitrust law again

It already does and it didn’t particularly stop. The problem is that there is no obvious damage to consumers here (what US antitrust law is based on).

GCP and Azure are both significant players with similar offerings. The fact that people use proprietary Amazon APIs to manage stuff isn’t a high enough bar to show a monopoly.

“We are locked into their product because it’s a big engineering expense to move off” isn’t an argument for monopoly busting. It’s a reflection on poor business decisions by the complainer. It has never worked against Oracle/MS in the past, it won’t start now.

A whole generation of engineers is about to relearn the importance of open source that drove everyone to open source stacks 15 years ago.

Re: S3 isn't getting cheaper

#127

Post by Dylan16807 »

toolz wrote: post #124
TimTheTinker wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how every market player is incentivized to behave, apart from regulatory authorities acting to prosecute monopolistic behavior. 1. Price and compete aggressively to grow market share, put competitors out of business, and even transform the market, if possible 2. Once you become the dominant player (i.e. a monopoly), raise prices (or don't lower them) as much as possible without damaging your market position T…

There have been 9 antitrust lawsuits filed against big tech in the past two years, what are you suggesting should there be more of?

How much have they had to pay in penalties, and how many significant structural changes have there been? That's the standard to use, not number of lawsuits or even number of verdicts.

Antitrust penalties, more often than not, aren't even as big as the extra profit a company made!

Re: S3 isn't getting cheaper

#128

Post by wallmountedtv »

toolz wrote: post #124
TimTheTinker wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how every market player is incentivized to behave, apart from regulatory authorities acting to prosecute monopolistic behavior. 1. Price and compete aggressively to grow market share, put competitors out of business, and even transform the market, if possible 2. Once you become the dominant player (i.e. a monopoly), raise prices (or don't lower them) as much as possible without damaging your market position T…

There have been 9 antitrust lawsuits filed against big tech in the past two years, what are you suggesting should there be more of?

Acting on splitting up the monopolies. Making Amazon/Google/Meta into multiple smaller companies. As antitrust fines have now just become the exepences one pay to run a monopoly now.

Re: S3 isn't getting cheaper

#129

Post by fleddr »

Spooky23 wrote: post #75
fleddr wrote: post #68

Storage price reductions slowing down or even coming to a halt makes me wonder what this means for "infinite storage" companies. I'm talking services like Facebook, Youtube, that are "free" (ad supported) where on a daily basis an absurd amount of new content is added, yet almost nothing ever removed. If storage needs grow endlessly yet storage costs stopped going down, wouldn't that mean that the model in the long t…

I disagree, I’m still in the datacenter storage business and our service delivery costs have been going down. You have to look at the service as a whole… nvme let us retire frames, etc. I think hyperscale margins are high, and I think between the many tiers of storage and backend technology they are constantly cooking cost out.

But still content keeps growing, and income per user won't. Doesn't that mean that at one point you're out of runway?

Re: S3 isn't getting cheaper

#130

Post by winkeltripel »

toolz wrote: post #124
TimTheTinker wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how every market player is incentivized to behave, apart from regulatory authorities acting to prosecute monopolistic behavior. 1. Price and compete aggressively to grow market share, put competitors out of business, and even transform the market, if possible 2. Once you become the dominant player (i.e. a monopoly), raise prices (or don't lower them) as much as possible without damaging your market position T…

There have been 9 antitrust lawsuits filed against big tech in the past two years, what are you suggesting should there be more of?

There should be results. Tech giants are too big to fail, as are the big banks and insurers. If we break up the banks and insurers by product offerings, then why not break up big tech?

Each company gets split into 3 smaller firms, each with access to all the IP of the mothership. They get to fight for their customers, and barter over business assets, to figure out who owns what.

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