Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 215 posts

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#121

Post by ransom1538 »

Random_BSD_Geek wrote: post #120
ransom1538 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FAANG isn't looking for experience at all. They want smart fresh college grads - better schools first. They have a large army of middle management ready to grind them until they either quit or promote up to middle management. They put a lot of time and money into this well oiled machine. Taking on senior devs is a waste of their time, they don't have the processes or culture to integrate them - and seniors have an ab…

This was an uncannily accurate characterization of my time at one of these companies.

Yes. This is from all my friends that work there with 4+ drinks in them.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#122

Post by orzig »

foobiekr wrote: post #87
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

I generally enjoy Dan Luu’s advice, but IMO it’s best approached with the understanding that his professional and social network is somewhat of a bubble that doesn’t reflect the average person. Specifically, he cites a statistic that 50% of the people with “no experience” he knows are getting ML and other such jobs at Big Tech companies. In this case, I think he’s likely pre-filtering his sample set to people with si…

The ML thing would not surprise me at all. ML is so hot that if you know the buzzwords and have done some hello world project, someone will give you a job. It is very much like "html coding" in 1999 and will probably have the same outcome.

My company gets an absolute a glut of applicants who did a Boot Camp or even Masters program into science, and rejects most before interviewing. We’re not Google either, in pay or prestige. So I’ll strongly object to your characterization based on extensive anecdotal evidence.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#123

Post by tfehring »

ransom1538 wrote: post #111
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

I generally enjoy Dan Luu’s advice, but IMO it’s best approached with the understanding that his professional and social network is somewhat of a bubble that doesn’t reflect the average person. Specifically, he cites a statistic that 50% of the people with “no experience” he knows are getting ML and other such jobs at Big Tech companies. In this case, I think he’s likely pre-filtering his sample set to people with si…

FAANG isn't looking for experience at all. They want smart fresh college grads - better schools first. They have a large army of middle management ready to grind them until they either quit or promote up to middle management. They put a lot of time and money into this well oiled machine. Taking on senior devs is a waste of their time, they don't have the processes or culture to integrate them - and seniors have an ab…

I think it's useful to distinguish the behavior of FAANG [0] as a collective vs. any individual FAANG company. FAANG as a collective almost exclusively hires recent college grads, who work there until retirement [1]. Any individual FAANG company is constantly hiring senior devs, who work there for ~2 years before going to a different individual FAANG company for a pay raise (or for various other reasons). Some FAANGs (or at least some teams) are meat grinders, but my impression is that that's pretty far from the norm.

[0] Meaning those 5 specific companies + other large tech companies that compete with them for talent + startups comprised of people from those companies.

[1] Leaving in your thirties to become a carpenter or open a restaurant or whatever still counts as retirement if you have enough in the bank to never have to work again.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#124

Post by fhrow4484 »

em-bee wrote: post #51
cupofpython wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you have to make big decisions early on about what you're most interested in and then pursue a deep specialization in it I am seeing similar trends to you wrt Generalists, and this is annoying but good advice. Even when hired, generalists tend to get stuck with all the most tedious work from every department that simply no one wants to do. You end up being a one-stop shop for all intern and junior related work, wit…

generalists tend to get stuck with all the most tedious work from every department that simply no one wants to do someone has to do it, and if the pay is adequate, it's a matter of attitude. not getting credit (appropriate $ compensation) for your influence i don't understand this part. you already have your salary, as negotiated. are you saying that such a positions are always underpaid? and if such a position reall…

> i don't understand this part. you already have your salary, as negotiated

In FAANG your salary is only a small part of your compensation.

At end of year, based on your perceived performance, you get:

- a bonus (10 to 20+% of base salary)

- a stock refresh (80 to 120k over 4 years for instance for entry level/mid-level)

- a merit increase of your base salary

All these 3 influence your compensation significantly.

You can do the math, someone starting at let's say 140k base with 4 years of 15% bonus, 80k refresh, 2% merit raise, will have a different compensation than someone who's also starting at 140k but with 4 years of 20% bonus, 110k refresh, 4% merit raise

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#125

Post by nightski »

skrtskrt wrote: post #92
SamvitJ wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard disagree. ML is hard to break into, even with strong credentials. (Source: ML engineer)

I think they probably mean "ML engineering" as in training pre-existing models in jupyter notebooks, the new "data science". The people that actually create/engineer anything new and useful in ML is <1% of people that "work in ML".

Are those positions real? It feels like once the model didn't work if you did not have the background to know why it wasn't working then you'd be in trouble real quick.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#126

Post by grog454 »

Having the wrong experience can also be better than no experience. My early career was full of what I call "negative learning" experiences. I was essentially taught what not to do with clear demonstrations of why it shouldn't be done. Eventually it became apparent that every job, every experience even has lessons you can learn from, whether they be positive or negative reinforcements. This open minded approach where I strive to be as objective as possible made working as a solo dev for 7+ years a successful and not particularly scary endeavour.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#127

Post by germinalphrase »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

I generally enjoy Dan Luu’s advice, but IMO it’s best approached with the understanding that his professional and social network is somewhat of a bubble that doesn’t reflect the average person. Specifically, he cites a statistic that 50% of the people with “no experience” he knows are getting ML and other such jobs at Big Tech companies. In this case, I think he’s likely pre-filtering his sample set to people with si…

Transitioning out of a career in HS education and seeking a path in PM. Looking for useful prep references and remote referrals if anyone is willing to extend a hand.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#128

Post by natpalmer1776 »

germinalphrase wrote: post #127
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

I generally enjoy Dan Luu’s advice, but IMO it’s best approached with the understanding that his professional and social network is somewhat of a bubble that doesn’t reflect the average person. Specifically, he cites a statistic that 50% of the people with “no experience” he knows are getting ML and other such jobs at Big Tech companies. In this case, I think he’s likely pre-filtering his sample set to people with si…

Transitioning out of a career in HS education and seeking a path in PM. Looking for useful prep references and remote referrals if anyone is willing to extend a hand.

Every PM I have met pivoted from a technical or front line role. External hires for PMs without direct prior experience are probably lottery-esque happenings.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#130

Post by kragen »

orzig wrote: post #122
foobiekr wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ML thing would not surprise me at all. ML is so hot that if you know the buzzwords and have done some hello world project, someone will give you a job. It is very much like "html coding" in 1999 and will probably have the same outcome.

My company gets an absolute a glut of applicants who did a Boot Camp or even Masters program into science, and rejects most before interviewing. We’re not Google either, in pay or prestige. So I’ll strongly object to your characterization based on extensive anecdotal evidence.

What do you mean by "even Masters program into science"?
Post reply on HN