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Why can't the government put a limit on car sizes?

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Re: Why can't the government put a limit on car sizes?

#121

Post by kube-system »

Bubble_Pop_22 wrote: post #115
samemail88 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You break the arms race by limiting the size.

No, you break the arms race by making people understand that size is not the only game in town. GT cars have steel cages built around the driver, also carbon fiber reinforcements.

That's not really a helpful comparison. The safety considerations on a track are very different than on the road.

Safety devices on modern vehicles aren't independent variables -- they are designed to work together, and they're designed for particular risk cases.

Street cars have some design criteria that isn't the case for some of the safety systems on track cars: for example, the safety systems in a passenger vehicle are designed to work without a helmet or a HANS, which is often not the case with track cars.

If you are not wearing a helmet and a HANS, you are safer wrecking a car with an airbag and a 3 point belt than a cage and a harness, where you'll end up with a concussion and a basel fracture.

Also, crashes on a racetrack are overwhelmingly with barriers or with vehicles with similar vectors of motion. On the road, impacts at 90 or 180 degrees with vehicles of varying masses are much more common, and then, mass becomes a significant factor in the forces imparted upon occupants.

Re: Why can't the government put a limit on car sizes?

#122

Post by sliken »

Geonode wrote: post #2

Why can't they government fix my pet peeves? This kind of thinking is what's leading us to a prison society without privacy or freedom, one little whiny step at a time. The government should do as little as possible, and the least at the federal level.

Sure, but to be fair infrastructure should be "free" to all citizens (like public schools) or some approximation of fair/usage based.

The cost of road related infrastructure (roads, highways, parking, tunnels, bridges, etc) and the land consumed by that infrastructure is considerable. I can see flat rate being something like the wear and tear you'd expect from a normal/popular vehicle, like say a honda accord or toyota camry. But if people buy something huge (that takes up more space) and is heavier they should pay more for it to support the increased cost of the wear and tear on the infrastructure. That can be substantial, I believe the wear and tear on a road scales with the 4th power of the weight.

Re: Why can't the government put a limit on car sizes?

#123

Post by sliken »

carlmr wrote: post #100
micromacrofoot wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really a pet peeve, the government actually subsidizes large vehicles, many of which do a disproportionate amount of roadway damage. So maybe not a restriction, but at least let's end the subsidies. A tax by weight, which has been recommended by some in the past, seems entirely reasonable as well. The US is constantly shooting itself in the foot with what I'd argue aren't too many regulations... but regulati…

>A tax by weight, which has been recommended by some in the past, seems entirely reasonable as well. All for it, but this will hurt EVs quite a lot.

Sure, a bit, which is fair. Sure maybe EV incentives make sense to burn less gas, but have them pay full share of road wear. A model 3 RWD is 3800 pounds, a somewhat similar sized Toyota Camry is 3,300 pounds. Tesla's just starting to ship the 4680 batteries with their structural battery pack which should decrease the vehicle weight for a given range, which should decrease the weight penalty further.

Re: Why can't the government put a limit on car sizes?

#124

Post by HWR_14 »

kube-system wrote: post #116
HWR_14 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How could the government limit the size of vehicles? Tons of ways. For instance, "a car must get at least 40 MPG". "A car can weigh no more than X". There are lots of whats to phrase the rules. Or do you mean "how could the government possibly enforce a law against a product in a highly regulated industry with compulsory registration", in which case it seems obvious.

> "a car must get at least 40 MPG". This is basically how CAFE works, and it's part of the problem. Trucks are necessary for commerce and utility, and we allow people to drive them on the road. So we now have a road filled with vehicles that are technically "trucks" carrying families instead of "cars".

I mean, we could redefine "truck" to exclude SUVs.

Re: Why can't the government put a limit on car sizes?

#125

Post by kube-system »

HWR_14 wrote: post #124
kube-system wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "a car must get at least 40 MPG". This is basically how CAFE works, and it's part of the problem. Trucks are necessary for commerce and utility, and we allow people to drive them on the road. So we now have a road filled with vehicles that are technically "trucks" carrying families instead of "cars".

I mean, we could redefine "truck" to exclude SUVs.

You could. Whether or not you’d get a desirable outcome is up to the particulars of the implementation.

It’s worth remembering that the current state of things is an unintended consequence. Describing the problem generally is easy. Defining it specifically enough so that there isn’t a workaround is the tough part

Re: Why can't the government put a limit on car sizes?

#126

Post by lamontcg »

kube-system wrote: post #114
kixiQu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my household we typically use the phrase "pet peeve" to refer to things that are meaningfully below the impact threshold of killing humans https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/large-trucks-suvs-far-m...

The article did not take issue with the safety of large vehicles.

It should have.

Re: Why can't the government put a limit on car sizes?

#127

Post by vehemenz »

samemail88 wrote: post #67
vehemenz wrote: post #42

A larger vehicle full of passengers is often more efficient than a smaller one. Are we going to regulate minimum passengers per vehicle size? I'm not sure this proposal solves the intended problem in a meaningful way. I'd rather see hefty taxes on fuel. This might yield better incentives toward urbanization, alternative transportation, and mass-transportation infrastructure.

What happens when people see the high cost of gas and switch to big electric cars instead?

Good point. Either way we wouldn't be any worse off, and we'd have cleaner air to boot.

Re: Why can't the government put a limit on car sizes?

#128

Post by lamontcg »

njarboe wrote: post #84
toss1 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense, particularly in this case - the SUV is not some act of god but a result of prior necessary regulation that needs adjustment. The SUV was basically created by the govt when CAFE (Corp Average Fuel Efficiency) standards specified higher fuel efficiency for cars vs "light trucks" (27.5 vs 21mpg, IIRC). So, instead of promoting the previously ubiquitous station wagon as a family-hauler, automakers started promo…

There is also the 25% "Chicken Tax"[1] on imported light trucks started in 1964 and still in force today. Domestic auto manufactures were highly motivated to get the public to buy trucks/SUVs instead of cars for the last 60 years and they did a pretty good job at it. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/chicken-tax.asp#:~:text... .

Is that why I can't buy a Toyota Hilux?

Re: Why can't the government put a limit on car sizes?

#129

Post by frumper »

HWR_14 wrote: post #124
kube-system wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "a car must get at least 40 MPG". This is basically how CAFE works, and it's part of the problem. Trucks are necessary for commerce and utility, and we allow people to drive them on the road. So we now have a road filled with vehicles that are technically "trucks" carrying families instead of "cars".

I mean, we could redefine "truck" to exclude SUVs.

A 4 door truck would probably be the new family vehicle.

Re: Why can't the government put a limit on car sizes?

#130

Post by spoils19 »

sebazzz wrote: post #120
Geonode wrote: post #2

Why can't they government fix my pet peeves? This kind of thinking is what's leading us to a prison society without privacy or freedom, one little whiny step at a time. The government should do as little as possible, and the least at the federal level.

> The government should do as little as possible, and the least at the federal level. Look at where that got the biggest country on the planet.

The biggest economy on the planet? The most free country on the planet?
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