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Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

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Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#121

Post by goodpoint »

School-Cotton wrote: post #114
goodpoint wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. This is a perfect example of appropriation. --- Cultural appropriation is the inappropriate or unacknowledged adoption of an element or elements of one culture or identity by members of another culture or identity. This can be controversial when members of a dominant culture appropriate from minority cultures. According to critics of the practice, cultural appropriation differs from acculturation, assimilati…

Why are Americans the “majority” and Asian Buddhists the “minority” in this exchange? And what makes this “colonialism” ?

"majority" and "minority" are not about raw numbers but power dynamics in this context.

"colonialism" refers to extracting whatever idea or artifact is seen as valuable from a culture or a land without consent and/or without respecting the moral rights of who invented or made it.

Additionally, you can read the wikipedia page.

(edited for clarity: different people use majority/minority differently depending on the context. In this context it's not about raw numbers.)

(edit: an example of power dynamic could be a large multinational food chain that takes a lesser-known dish from some culture and sells a butchered version worldwide without clearly indicating the origin and/or that it's not the real thing. By doing this it can easily distorts the idea of the dish in the minds of millions of people.)

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#122

Post by [deleted] »

throwawayacc2 wrote: post #115
md_ wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key point is that it becomes "appropriation"--vs cultural mixing or exchange--when the ideas are removed of their source context and used in a way that is contrary or even disrespectful of their original intent. I'm far from an expert, but it seems like a reasonable argument to advance that the linkage of Buddhist practices with corporate and material advancement--and the removal of spiritual or ethical c…

The exact same thing can be said about anything. Judaism appropriated pre existing ideas and disrespected them by insisting on a single god. Christianity appropriated judaism and disrespected it by removing covenant practices such as circumcision and adding new ideas such as the kingdom of heaven being available to anyone not just “the chosen people”. Islam appropriated christianity and disrespected it by demoting Je…

[deleted]

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#123

Post by amadeuspagel »

md_ wrote: post #99
throwawayacc2 wrote: post #93

I stopped reading upon seeing at the very stop this “ Silicon Valley is the latest player in a history of Western appropriation of Buddhism” I was very curious about the article. I am wondering if it treats ideas such as “hire fast fire fast” - In a way a concept related to the Buddhist ideas of detachment, or the opposite, “bing your whole self to work” which in a way seems contradictory - you have attachments, cont…

I think the key point is that it becomes "appropriation"--vs cultural mixing or exchange--when the ideas are removed of their source context and used in a way that is contrary or even disrespectful of their original intent. I'm far from an expert, but it seems like a reasonable argument to advance that the linkage of Buddhist practices with corporate and material advancement--and the removal of spiritual or ethical c…

"Jazz drew from ragtime, also “coded” Black, but ragtime drew from marches, drawn in great measure from white men John Philip Sousa and (eep) Wagner."[1]

In your view, is this appropriation or cultural mixing or exchange?

[1]: https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/theres-no-alternative-t...

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#124

Post by lsrinivas »

It's sad that in the US Buddhism stands for some kind of a woolly notion of peace and peacefulness. In the countries where it is in majority, it is as bad as any other institutionalized religion. Sri Lanka and Burma (now Myanmar), known for the worst kind of pogroms against minorities, have the dubious distinction of a lot of riots against minorities and many, if not most, of these are led by Buddhist monks in their holy saffron garb.

Re corporate America, meditation and mindfulness were waiting to be incorporated into the corporate 'feel good' mantra.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#125

Post by amadeuspagel »

goodpoint wrote: post #121
School-Cotton wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are Americans the “majority” and Asian Buddhists the “minority” in this exchange? And what makes this “colonialism” ?

"majority" and "minority" are not about raw numbers but power dynamics in this context. "colonialism" refers to extracting whatever idea or artifact is seen as valuable from a culture or a land without consent and/or without respecting the moral rights of who invented or made it. Additionally, you can read the wikipedia page. (edited for clarity: different people use majority/minority differently depending on the con…

> "majority" and "minority" are never about raw numbers but power dynamics.

So the concept "minority rule" is a contradiction in terms, since if a group rules it's per definition the majority?

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#126

Post by qzx_pierri »

Anyone who has read the Dhammapada can tell you exactly why the rise of Buddhism is a good thing. America's tendency to wrap everything up in a fancy package and slap a dollar sign on it might be annoying, but meditation is free - Ignore the noise.

Transcendental Meditation (TM) has been doing this for a while now[1]. But it's not a big deal because outrage bait articles didn't make it a big deal. Please argue about gun control or roe, or some other hot button issue. Leave the Buddha's teachings out of it.

1: https://www.tm.org/course-fee

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#127

Post by md_ »

throwawayacc2 wrote: post #115
md_ wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key point is that it becomes "appropriation"--vs cultural mixing or exchange--when the ideas are removed of their source context and used in a way that is contrary or even disrespectful of their original intent. I'm far from an expert, but it seems like a reasonable argument to advance that the linkage of Buddhist practices with corporate and material advancement--and the removal of spiritual or ethical c…

The exact same thing can be said about anything. Judaism appropriated pre existing ideas and disrespected them by insisting on a single god. Christianity appropriated judaism and disrespected it by removing covenant practices such as circumcision and adding new ideas such as the kingdom of heaven being available to anyone not just “the chosen people”. Islam appropriated christianity and disrespected it by demoting Je…

In this post alone you've written, what, four times as many words as the length you read into the article?

This is peak HN.

Edit: I take it back. What's peak HN is that this is the top voted comment on the entire post.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#128

Post by honkdaddy »

goodpoint wrote: post #121
School-Cotton wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are Americans the “majority” and Asian Buddhists the “minority” in this exchange? And what makes this “colonialism” ?

"majority" and "minority" are not about raw numbers but power dynamics in this context. "colonialism" refers to extracting whatever idea or artifact is seen as valuable from a culture or a land without consent and/or without respecting the moral rights of who invented or made it. Additionally, you can read the wikipedia page. (edited for clarity: different people use majority/minority differently depending on the con…

I’ve heard the power dynamics argument before and admittedly it’s never held much weight for me. There are just too many edge cases for a heuristic like that to make any sense, in my mind.

So culturally powerless people may extract from culturally powerful people until what point? If a Ukrainian appropriates a part of Russian culture to be their own, who is the victim here? Recently, being Ukrainian has become a much more respected cultural identity than being a Russian, does that mean the power dynamic has shifted?

The more you pick away at the idea of cultural appropriation, you realize that the rules people set out for it make very little sense outside of the egregious examples of something like headdresses at Coachella, etc. My personal rule is just not to disrespect people and parts of their culture they find important. The color of my skin or the actions of either of our ancestors shouldn’t play into it, IMO.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#129

Post by amadeuspagel »

> [Zen at War] meticulously documents Zen Buddhism's support of Japanese militarism from the time of the Meiji Restoration through the World War II and the post-War period. It describes the influence of state policy on Buddhism in Japan, and particularly the influence of Zen on the military of the Empire of Japan. A famous quote is from Harada Daiun Sogaku: "[If ordered to] march: tramp, tramp, or shoot: bang, bang. This is the manifestation of the highest Wisdom [of Enlightenment]. The unity of Zen and war of which I speak extends to the farthest reaches of the holy war [now under way]."

> The book also explores the actions of Japanese Buddhists who opposed the growth of militarism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_at_War

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#130

Post by cuteboy19 »

md_ wrote: post #118
School-Cotton wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s indeed contrary and disrespectful of their original intent, but why does it matter what culture does it? If people from a traditionally Buddhist country like Nepal disrespected Buddhist ideas, it would presumably be just as disrespectful as if people from America did, so I don’t think “cultural appropriation” is the right way to analyze this. By the way, practically every religion has been transformed and warp…

I'm not sure which is more disrespectful, but I do think the two situations are different . If I'm immersed in a culture or practice and I reject some aspects of it, from a place of familiarity, that means something different--maybe something more disrespectful!--that if I display the trappings of a culture without understanding what they mean.

> removed of their source context and used in a way that is contrary or even disrespectful of their original intent.

Ironically all this talk of cultural appropriation is "contrary or even disrespectful of the original intent" of Buddhism. Buddhism never belonged to Magadha, India or Asia, so it is not possible for anybody to appropriate it. It is not anyone's property to begin with

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