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New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

drive.com.au

121–130 of 203 posts

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#121
I'd really like my car to automatically limit itself to a bit under the legal limit.

As it is, I find maintaining 40km/hr difficult, so I tend to engage the cruise control. But that's pretty painful. I'd much rather it just did it for me. It already shows the speed limit on the dash display, so it'd be pretty simple to hook that up to the cruise control.

And sure, it'd be good to have an override for when something's screwy (ie. roadwork, or the navigation maps are out of date, or whatever). But 99% of the time this would make my life better.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#122

I've been worried about something like this ever since maps first started showing the speed limit on the road I was on. It feels like an inevitability. For whatever reason this feels like an especially significant step on the path towards increasingly excessive control over individuals and it makes me very sad that it's finally happening.

Newer cars like my accord use a camera that looks for speed limit signs. What's funny is it's not perfect and sometimes will read a random sign and tell me the speed limit is like 100mph on a 35mph road.

That can't possibly work everywhere. Here in my state in Australia we have speed signs for the off-ramps where they are clearly visible from the freeway, so you might be in a 100 km/h zone but see a 60 km/h sign off the side that could easily be mistaken for a speed sign for the freeway (it's actually not that great design, sometimes they have a sign saying 'ramp speed' under it but not always)

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#123

This is not a bad idea - but speed limits have not changed to reflect changing cars. Speed limits are stuck at 100km in Australia and have been for decades - despite cars introducing anti-lock breaking, predictive breaking, anti-rollover technology, lane assist and so on. Cars are now much much safer, and yet speed limits outside of cities have not changed to reflect this. If the government wants to introduce speed l…

> Cars are now much much safer, and yet speed limits outside of cities have not changed to reflect this.

They're largely much bigger now and carry more kinetic energy and they're more of a danger to everyone around them.

And braking technology really hasn't advanced significantly compared to velocity squared.

Human reaction time also hasn't improved one bit and has largely gotten more and more distracted and worse.

With fatal accidents rising, I don't understand how the conclusion is that everything is so much safer than ever and that we need to be raising speed limits. I must not be blessed with good enough counterintuitive thinking skills.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#124

This is not a bad idea - but speed limits have not changed to reflect changing cars. Speed limits are stuck at 100km in Australia and have been for decades - despite cars introducing anti-lock breaking, predictive breaking, anti-rollover technology, lane assist and so on. Cars are now much much safer, and yet speed limits outside of cities have not changed to reflect this. If the government wants to introduce speed l…

Doesn't Australia have "follow the traffic" rules?

No, they will set up cameras and fine anybody going more than a few km/h or so over the speed limit (theoretically they can fine you for going 1 km/h over the limit but there is some kind of tolerance, people usually assume 10% but the police and road agencies don't disclose what it is (apparently it's not always the same for every road or for the conditions at the time either). I believe it's generally less than 10%).

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#125
post #40
post #3

There is absolutely no reason any road car should be able to (consistently) drive faster than ~150km/h

When Mt Saint Helens erupted there was an account from a survivor who raced away at 100mph, passing a car traveling at 80mph and seeing the slower car disappear into the ash cloud with little chance of surviving. Even in in the most extreme events your proposed limit is adequate. https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19800605&id=...

Citing this one case as a policy rationale is absurd.

40,000 highway deaths per year, but its vitally important to keep in mind that one guy that escaped an erupting volcano over 40 years ago.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#126

Most comments in this thread comments on the fact that Europeans are loosing their freedom do speed, and that they will not be able to drive fast. But that's just the title of an Australian website. In the article, and in the actual law, this is just about a *warning* to the driver, that can optionally be coupled with the cruise control, and that *can be overridden* by the driver. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intell…

First it's optional. Then they make it increasingly harder to disable. Then they make it mandatory. Surely everyone who has experienced abusive changes in software can see that pattern from a mile away? They aren't going to roast the frog, but instead boil it very slowly...

Ok I'll bite. The single most thing I hate about driving car in Germany is the lack of an upper speed limit on big stretches of the Autobahn. If you cross over from any neighbouring country any driver will notice that what before was a friendly chugging along now has become a stressful battle between people who just want to go somewhere with a good compromise of speed and fuel use and speedsters who will breath up you neck even if you are going 160. No thanks.

If this law were to enforce the speed limit by enforcing it in the motor control system there would still allow for unlimited speed on those stretches.

Your freedom to go faster than the speed limit also interferes with other freedoms btw. for example the health of people who live close to roads, the bodily integrity of people who might fall victim to the accidents caused by it etc.

If we build the roads correctly (e.g. like in more modern european places, many places in the Netherlands) speed limits become less relevant, because the shape of the street itself will limit how fast any sane person would go (not to speak of speed bumps).

So if you find yourself constantly enforcing speed limits, maybe there is an impedance mismatch between the way your road feels and the limit you slapped onto the traffic sign?

The obvious solution is to change the road, which might also come with added benefits (better for pedestrians, people on bicycles, therefore better revenue for local shops, restaurants and cafes etc).

Quite frankly I'd have no problem if my car enforced a speed limit, if the speed limit matches the street. Going 30 in a narrow (and I mean european narrow) street feels totally appropriate. Going 30 in what could be a highway not so much.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#127
post #9

So all cars will be susceptible to "phantom braking" due to a bug or worse? I really dislike this, and living in the third world I can already imagine fake road signs being used to decelerate and rob cars.

I imagine it would work by GPS (at least in Europe the speed limit of most roads can even be displayed in google maps).

Also: your motor/brakes are likely already controlled by software. Whether a speed limit is bolted onto that software or not doesn't make a lot of difference.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the limits that could be imposed on cars are to prevent people from crashing and killing others and exceeding the speed limit. I don't see the difference, they're both valid reasons to reduce speed.

Because I tell machines what to do. I don't take orders from a computer.

It is not an order. You tell it what to do and it responds with: "No". To the benefit of the rest of us who have to live with what you "tell" to machines.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#129

I object to driving any car with a built-in GPS or an internet connection, on basic privacy grounds. It amazes me how many advocacy groups and organizations [edit: and bicycle fans right here on HN!] are willing to completely demolish essential rights like privacy and freedom of movement, in the name of preventing speeding accidents.

I object to people operating dangerous vehicles in areas I walk without proper safety equipment. Feel free to drive whatever you want on your own private property. If you want privacy and freedom, you are free to walk or ride a bicycle unidentified. Which is fine as there is essentially no risk of killing people.

First of all, I hope you don't walk or ride your bike on the interstate. Secondly, being prohibited from using any form of transport faster than a bike without providing GPS location and personal identifiers is, for all intents and purposes, a total ban on freedom of travel. It's not like I think my freedom to drive without a GPS gives me a right to run over bikers. But the fact that you're willing to sacrifice all privacy and put any controls imaginable on free navigation to prevent stupid people from being stupid is extremely myopic. How long do you think it will be before every bike has to have a GPS and a personal identifier too? Ultimately that may not matter to you, but then again you might be just as happy with a bigsceen TV and a hamster wheel as going out, if they told you it was better for ya.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#130

I object to driving any car with a built-in GPS or an internet connection, on basic privacy grounds. It amazes me how many advocacy groups and organizations [edit: and bicycle fans right here on HN!] are willing to completely demolish essential rights like privacy and freedom of movement, in the name of preventing speeding accidents.

GPS is not a tracking technology. It's read-only. It allows you to determine your coordinates by listening to satellites. GPS receivers don't send your location.

I specified either/or GPS in conjunction with an internet connection.
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