Basic autopilot for highway driving has been amazing but I turn it off the moment I get on to a street because I'm not comfortable with it. I've had both a Model S and now have a Model 3. I skipped the FSD package on the model 3 because it's just not ready.
Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train
121–130 of 328 posts
Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm asking the question of how common it is. If I understand you correctly, self-driving should be banned if there's 1 error?
We actually do that with many industries where such errors result in loss of human life. Entire plane fleets being grounded and things like that.
They waited until two crashed before they grounded 737MAX. Two too many. They already knew.
Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train
#123??? I thought that was what it was for. Or maybe for making wacky collision vids on YouTube? Tesla just closed their whole self-driving office in San Mateo, and fired ("for poor performance") most of the staff, directing some to come to work across the bay. For now. People still employed on that activity would best update their résumés. People who paid for self-driving already? I would ask for a refund, in your shoes…
> Supposedly the "important" people are still employed. For now
I don't know if you're unaware of this or omitting it to mislead others, but everyone laid off were data labelers. This is completely consistent with a strategy shift to preserve capital: in-house annotation isn't that common for AV companies anyway. And data labelers are 100% the most "unimportant" in-house workers: their job is literally to be as consistent and mechanical as possible. In contrast to those defining and building the labeling procrsses, their job is to be as mechanical as possible.
I'm not a fan of Tesla. I think their approach to self-driving is irresponsible. But the level of dishonesty in conversation about them is astonishing, even on fora like this that are ostensibly higher-quality.
Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
But is the base lane keep adaptive cruise control not enough? What additions are worth $6k to you?
It used to be close, but not anymore. I am in the beta, so we are talking door-to-door navigation with turns, stops, starts, etc. Stopping at stop signs / red lights is the biggest game changer. But all of the driving stuff is useful.
So what are you doing other than supervising the car/driving?
That's what I don't get. You say it's useful. That implies you're doing something you weren't able to before, or getting some extra utility out of it, yet, from my understanding, you legally speaking should be no less attentive in the operation of this vehicle than any other.
In fact, you let your family operate it in FSD? Are you really doing them any favors? Driving is hard enough without having to consciously override an additional source of errors. You may be unintentionally training them to operate Autopilot/FSD instead of driving safely in general.
Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train
#125Unprotected left turns are one of the most dangerous situations in driving. I consider myself a competent driver, haven't been in an accident in over two decades, and I barely trust myself to make an unprotected left. I've heard that UPS (used to?) ban their drivers from making unprotected lefts. Not in a million years would I ever trust this maneuver to software. Humans screw it up all the time: https://old.reddit.c…
That's probably a US-specific challenge. Unprotected left turns are much rarer in Europe due to widespread use of roundabouts which are probably much easier to handle for both humans and software.
Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can’t imagine there is a way to get a refund, but if I could I would. 10k on something they won’t even let me beta test because where I live triggers incorrect forward collision warnings too frequently for my driving to be considered good enough. I was skeptical but paid up front, and I’m pretty sure I got taken
You need to set your forward collision warnings to 'early'. The safety score ding happens at medium. If you have it set to 'late', you will get dinged and never even know it until later.
"You need" to buy a different car.
Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train
#127I used it every day and it does almost all of my daily driving. If it never improves from where it is now, it will be worth the $6k I paid for it. And yeah, you gotta watch it and pay attention.
You are probally the exception. A guy I know said the tech is so good you let your guard down. He said there are days on 101 around 4:30 when he puts his sunglasses on and closes his eyes. He knows he taking a calculated risk. He's in bumper to bumper traffic. He also said their were times he let the car drive home, with one eye open because he was tired. With tech that good, I can see where drivers let their guard d…
> A vehicle he knows inside and out.
A vehicle he can drive as well and as effortlessly as a pro marathon runner can run. A vehicle that needs as little attention as his legs when walking. Because he knows it inside and out, he knows how the sketchy alignment affects handling at low speeds and at high speeds.
I was going to say "aw well as he can walk", but then I remembered that many American's are not good walkers.
nice that you brought up fender-benders, though. That old truck, probably doesn't matter if the fender bends a little more. VS cost to repair the tesla if it gets a ding...
Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train
#128I'm a terrible driver and its probably best there is an automated system to back me up. And from my experience with my daily commute, there are also many other terrible drivers on the road.
While Autopilot isn't perfect, its better than just throwing your hands up and saying nothing can be done about accidents.
Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
I just can’t understand why you’d give up control to a system that’s clearly still in beta. The cost of failure is way too high to take the risk.
The whole point should be you don't. You are giving live feedback to the most advanced ML learning system ever (probably). Which hopefully in a few years will actually work. You are not (currently) using an autonomous car. If you think so you are an idiot.
> You are not (currently) using an autonomous car. If you think so you are an idiot.
Let's define autonomous as self driving. According to their marketing page[1]:
> Tesla cars come standard with advanced hardware capable of providing Autopilot features, and full self-driving capabilities—through software updates designed to improve functionality over time.
So it has capabilities of autonomous driving, which means a Tesla can be considered an autonomous car. Unless I'm an idiot for trusting what their marketing page tells me, of course.
Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train
#130Meanwhile Cruise just obtained permission to charge passengers for driverless rides in San Francisco [1]. Cruise has been cleared to charge for rides in vehicles that will have no other people in them besides the passengers. There will be no back-up human driver present to take control if something goes wrong. Why is Tesla so far behind? Tesla is generating these autopilot mishap news on such a regular basis that it…
If we’re going to try to have autonomous vehicles, at some point these things have to be tested on real roads. Would you rather have a real human behind the wheel to take over in an instant or just have the computer plow through whatever if there’s a bug? When you are driving tesla “autopilot” you are still liable for everything the car does, you still need to be attentive just like you normally would. If the car crashes despite that, then you weren’t paying enough attention and that is your fault. In my experience any time it did something stupid, there was always plenty of time for me to take over and easily avoid an accident. In other words, it’s not going to rapidly swerve into oncoming traffic at 70mph. If you don’t want to accept the legal risk of what your car does on beta autopilot software or don’t want to continue paying attention to the roads while on autopilot then you shouldn’t be using it.