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Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

theguardian.com

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Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#121

Post by andsoitis »

maratc wrote: post #82
sweetheart wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel as though homophobia is never an acceptable worldview, so if you want me to reword what I said in a way that doesn’t imply that, I won’t. Some things are simply wrong. This is one of those things. If one’s worldview disagrees, then theirs is simply incorrect on this matter.

> Some things are simply wrong. This is one of those things. If one’s worldview disagrees, then theirs is simply incorrect on this matter. The GP said, "in a way that doesn't assume your worldview is the universal position ... everyone must adhere to". Your response still assumes that universality.

They said: "Some things are simply wrong. This is one of those things. If one’s worldview disagrees, then theirs is simply incorrect on this matter."

Similar concept but different issue: Do you think women should have equal rights as men? Do you think that should be universal? Or do you think it is OK for some jurisdictions to declare them the property of their husbands?

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#122

Post by ausbah »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #116
ausbah wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Its all just kowtowing to the power of the Global American Empire legislated by misguided civil rights legislation I would to know more as to why you this civil rights legislation, or presumably court rulings as well, are "misguided" >Every culture has a right to protect its values. Cultures that discriminate against people for innate characteristics like sex, sexual orientation, race, etc. are backwards. Label me b…

> a person's right to participate fully in a society should depends on any cultural or societal norms or traditions Did you mean to write "shouldn't"?

yes thank you

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#123

Post by ehhthing »

londons_explore wrote: post #102
frereubu wrote: post #94

I'd be (genuinely) interested in an answer to the questions: (a) would people here, as individuals, feel comfortable working for a company owned by someone like Mohammed bin Salman? and (b) If not, what is the difference between that and a company changing its working practices to continue making profits in that country? My sense is that the corporate decisions are easier because they're depersonalised, but I don't s…

By not providing your services to the people of these countries, you are making their quality of life worse. See heavily sanctioned countries like North Korea and Iran for examples of quite how much worse life is for those citizens. "I don't want to support Mohammed bin Salman" needs to be traded off against "I don't want to make 34 million people have worse lives". In my view, in nearly every case, the latter effect…

As a former Chinese citizen, I've always been a bit confused why people get mad at companies operating in the country, censored.

At least in my experience, a censored version of a foreign website is always much better than the stuff developed locally, and there are some political reasons for this I won't go into.

In my opinion, it's pure virtue signalling to argue that "a company compromising morals in a different country is bad", at least in the general case. I would totally rather use a censored version of Google over Baidu.

Arguing that "companies operating in China while censored hurts the Chinese people" is pure nonsense. The only people that care that {some company} is censored in China are distinctly people outside of China.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#125

Post by frereubu »

Strom wrote: post #109
frereubu wrote: post #94

I'd be (genuinely) interested in an answer to the questions: (a) would people here, as individuals, feel comfortable working for a company owned by someone like Mohammed bin Salman? and (b) If not, what is the difference between that and a company changing its working practices to continue making profits in that country? My sense is that the corporate decisions are easier because they're depersonalised, but I don't s…

Mohammed bin Salman is from Saudi Arabia, this article is about the United Arab Emirates, or well the Amazon-related part anyway. Also, while we're on the topic of moral dilemmas, I would like to add some spice by pointing out that buying almost anything from the supermarket funds someone like Mohammed bin Salman, because their oil was used in the production and transportation of the product or its components.

Saudi Arabia was mentioned in the article too. I picked him as he and his actions are more well-known. Also, I don't think you're adding "spice". Just because that's the state of the world currently, doesn't mean that can't change. I find a lot of these comments frustrating as they seem to coming from a really weak place of "change is too hard".

Edit: My reference to "change" here is about transitioning from fossil fuels so governments like that of Russia and Saudi Arabia have less hold on other governments.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#126

Post by wccrawford »

zozbot234 wrote: post #29
sweetheart wrote: post #4

Is there any argument here in Amazon’s defense? Or is my initial disgust at Amazon truly the appropriate response. I cannot fathom being the person at Amazon who makes that call. Do they sleep well at night? Do they feel good about themselves?

Amazon is a private organization. They aren't mandated or required to give everyone a platform.

So far as I can see, nobody is suggesting that the government should mandate that.

Amazon is a private organization with lots and lots of customers. Some of those customers (and potential customers) are upset with what Amazon is doing, and they're voicing that opinion. They can't force Amazon to do anything, unlike the government, but they can certainly persuade them.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#127

Post by Spivak »

maratc wrote: post #82
sweetheart wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel as though homophobia is never an acceptable worldview, so if you want me to reword what I said in a way that doesn’t imply that, I won’t. Some things are simply wrong. This is one of those things. If one’s worldview disagrees, then theirs is simply incorrect on this matter.

> Some things are simply wrong. This is one of those things. If one’s worldview disagrees, then theirs is simply incorrect on this matter. The GP said, "in a way that doesn't assume your worldview is the universal position ... everyone must adhere to". Your response still assumes that universality.

If the standard you're going to hold the parent to would include "assume as a premise that it's totally fine that a country decides to commit genocide and there's no possible justification for why that's bad outside cultural norms" then what's even the point? Do you want an economic argument or something?

I mean the argument is “homosexuality and being trans are real observable phenomena in the human species across history and cultures and bringing harm to groups of people based on factors they cannot change is morally wrong.”

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#128

Post by [deleted] »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #59
RyEgswuCsn wrote: post #54

Do people agree that corporations should respect the customs and values of the local people when operating their business there? If yes, then Amazon is not "bowing", and it is The Guardian who is playing word games here. If not, then it would seem to imply that we are OK with western powers using their capital (instead of gunboats) to impose their ideology on other cultures in the world. Now, one may argue that the c…

No, only the law. UAE customs and values on LGBTQ will collapse naturally by the outside pressure of superior Western culture.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#129

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

onmobile2022 wrote: post #104
frereubu wrote: post #94

I'd be (genuinely) interested in an answer to the questions: (a) would people here, as individuals, feel comfortable working for a company owned by someone like Mohammed bin Salman? and (b) If not, what is the difference between that and a company changing its working practices to continue making profits in that country? My sense is that the corporate decisions are easier because they're depersonalised, but I don't s…

This generalizes to whether or not you would be willing to e.g. get an Uber. This money is absolutely everywhere, is there really some moral high ground in measuring how far away you stand as you accept it? What about working for a public company with Saudi shareholders? For me at least, the willingness to take Uber rides I know are subsidized by Saudi money is little (if at all) different from a moral perspective th…

> the willingness to take Uber rides I know are subsidized by Saudi money is little (if at all) different from a moral perspective than working directly for a fully Saudi funded entity

What? No! The Uber driver is getting a paycheck; you're getting a ride; and the Saudis are getting ripped off.

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