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The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

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Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#121

Post by dasil003 »

rs wrote: post #80
dasil003 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if my phone's battery is dead ? Go to an ATM. > There are countries where phone penetration (and not even smart phone) is not very high, but the population still need to have credit cards. There are also countries where SMS payments are much more popular than credit cards. It's not a one-payment-system world.

> Go to an ATM. Exactly, and you end up using a "card" anyway

Okay then smart guy, go to a bank teller.

Using a card on the extremely rare occasion that you forget to charge your phone is a world of difference from using it 10 times every day.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#122

Post by fauldsh »

So every time I buy something I end up declaring to every-one in the shop that I have my smartphone on me, not only that but I publicly tell them everything they need to buy stuff from that shop if they did manage to get my phone?

Chip-and-pin means I rarely carry cash, I don't really see this as an improvement on putting my card in a reader and entering my pin.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#123

Post by vsl2 »

My questions regarding Card Case:

1) How is it going to move away from being based on credit cards?

Most savvy people I know use credit cards wherever possible because of the no-liability fraud protections that are not present in debit transactions. Clearly, Square users are younger and savvier than the general population. No way should anyone use bank account-based payments on a mobile device that could be stolen/hacked/lost because you're not going to get the money back that is fradulently charged.

2) Do you really want to have a shopping experience where store cashiers and other customers standing around know your name?

Most people I know would prefer to remain more anonymous than that.

3) Where is the verification of customer payment (e.g. signature on CC receipt)? What happens when there are customer chargebacks?

4) Is it really that hard to pull out and use a credit card?

I'm all for improving the current payments environment where a few major companies (Visa, MC, AMEX) dominate and as such, are able to extract large fees from merchants (which get passed along to consumers), but I don't see Square (or anyone else) as having found the answer yet. Their attempts seem to be more "cool to have" and technologically impressive than actually solving the underlying inefficiencies in the payments industry.

And frankly, the major credit card companies are going to come out with their own NFC apps at some point and if Square is still relevant, they'll be just another player in the oligopoly (but still dependent on the others' back-end processing component).

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#124

Post by JonWood »

jwallaceparker wrote: post #66

Sounds interesting. But also a bit risky compared to a credit card, which to me isn't a hassle to use. And does it offer reward points? If not I'll stick with plastic.

Presumably it's still backed by a card of some form, unless Square are picking up the tab for anyone using card case, so you'll get reward points when the transaction gets processed by Square.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#125

Post by fauldsh »

ig1 wrote: post #105
6ren wrote: post #101

A malicious cashier could order things in your name, whenever you were nearby. This might not happen much in practice, because the cashier would be found out later (assuming they must login). However, the opportunity doesn't arise with existing transactions, where you must physically hand something over (cash/card), and usually get an opportunity to verify the amount, so there's no evidence either way. It will be int…

It happens all the time with credit cards, the practice is known as "skimming" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_fraud#Skimming

But it would be so much easier with this new system, they're told all the information they need and will have to enter legitimately, rather than having to use 3rd-party hardware.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#126

Post by Karunamon »

jerfelix wrote: post #99
notatoad wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the privacy issues are negated by it being totally opt in. the other examples in your post are silent, unauthorized tracking. obviously there are privacy concerns with a system like this, but if that is something that worries you, you can control it.

I still would like to be able to buy coffee without having to announce my real name out loud to everyone around me. Cash provides me that privacy. Heck, credit cards even keep the transaction between me and the merchant.

Oh for crying out loud...

I understand the privacy concerns, but this isn't a secret agent movie. I'm reminded of that scene from Jurassic Park..

Nedry: Ooh! Dodgson! he sits down Dodgson: You shouldn't use my name. Nedry: (loudly) Dodgson! Dodgson! We have Dodgson here! Nedry: Nobody cares. Nice hat. Trying to look like a secret agent?

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#127

Post by T-hawk »

vidarh wrote: post #108
maximusprime wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's stupidly insecure, unregulated, won't reach mass adoption etc?

Credit cards are stupidly insecure. Last I heard, a few years ago you could buy blocks of thousands of valid, tested credit card with CVV2 values for about the cost of a coffee. Credit cards works because the banks are willing to stretch far to block fraudulent transactions or take them off the bill because having you trust the card makes them lots of money. The same will be the case here: Unless the fraud takes on t…

It's not out of goodwill that the banks will eat the cost of fraud or work hard to prevent it. Banks do this to protect their own pockets, because (US) law says that customer liability for credit card fraud is limited to $50 and anything beyond that is the bank's loss.

For a counterexample, see Paypal. Paypal's unresponsiveness to fraud situations is legendary, because it's not their money at stake and as legally-not-a-bank they can simply stick their customers with the loss. (Paypal's customers are merchants, I don't mean end-consumers here.)

Getting back to Square, as long as they're not regulated like a bank, they will in the long term become more like Paypal in dealing with fraud. The founders may be able to delay or mitigate this with a strong organizational commitment to customer service, but that would be pretty unprecedented in the financial industry; the bottom line always looks better when the corporation can push fraud costs off of itself.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#128

Post by jerfelix »

Karunamon wrote: post #126
jerfelix wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still would like to be able to buy coffee without having to announce my real name out loud to everyone around me. Cash provides me that privacy. Heck, credit cards even keep the transaction between me and the merchant.

Oh for crying out loud... I understand the privacy concerns, but this isn't a secret agent movie. I'm reminded of that scene from Jurassic Park.. Nedry: Ooh! Dodgson! he sits down Dodgson: You shouldn't use my name. Nedry: (loudly) Dodgson! Dodgson! We have Dodgson here! Nedry: Nobody cares. Nice hat. Trying to look like a secret agent?

I can think of several reasons besides being a secret agent that I wouldn't want my name announced.

Say I am meeting someone that I wouldn't want to normally be associated with - whether it's for a job interview or a personal meeting.

Or say I plan to pick up a Playboy magazine at the same counter.

Or say I'm a cute woman, and I prefer not to be stalked.

Or say I don't want that sales guy over there to come up to me and pretend to know me.

Or say I was just overheard saying that my kids are all alone at home.

Or say I just got out of an expensive car.

Or say I was having a bad day and complained loudly.

Or say I farted.

Or ...

I could go on and on.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#129

Post by Karunamon »

jerfelix wrote: post #128
Karunamon wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh for crying out loud... I understand the privacy concerns, but this isn't a secret agent movie. I'm reminded of that scene from Jurassic Park.. Nedry: Ooh! Dodgson! he sits down Dodgson: You shouldn't use my name. Nedry: (loudly) Dodgson! Dodgson! We have Dodgson here! Nedry: Nobody cares. Nice hat. Trying to look like a secret agent?

I can think of several reasons besides being a secret agent that I wouldn't want my name announced. Say I am meeting someone that I wouldn't want to normally be associated with - whether it's for a job interview or a personal meeting. Or say I plan to pick up a Playboy magazine at the same counter. Or say I'm a cute woman, and I prefer not to be stalked. Or say I don't want that sales guy over there to come up to me…

Then don't "announce" your name. You're telling the cashier your name for payment purposes, not alerting everybody in $store to your presence.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#130

Post by jerfelix »

jerfelix wrote: post #128
Karunamon wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh for crying out loud... I understand the privacy concerns, but this isn't a secret agent movie. I'm reminded of that scene from Jurassic Park.. Nedry: Ooh! Dodgson! he sits down Dodgson: You shouldn't use my name. Nedry: (loudly) Dodgson! Dodgson! We have Dodgson here! Nedry: Nobody cares. Nice hat. Trying to look like a secret agent?

I can think of several reasons besides being a secret agent that I wouldn't want my name announced. Say I am meeting someone that I wouldn't want to normally be associated with - whether it's for a job interview or a personal meeting. Or say I plan to pick up a Playboy magazine at the same counter. Or say I'm a cute woman, and I prefer not to be stalked. Or say I don't want that sales guy over there to come up to me…

OK so I don't announce my name. Maybe I can just hand the clerk a card with my name on it.

Perhaps a credit card.

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