Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bitcoin disappearing tomorrow wouldn't make a dent in our current fossil fuel emissions. Bitcoin mining ASICs don't emit CO2. Take it up with policymakers who subsidize fossil fuels.
> Bitcoin disappearing tomorrow wouldn't make a dent in our current fossil fuel emissions. Bitcoin mining ASICs don't emit CO2. Take it up with policymakers who subsidize fossil fuels. This sounds a lot like you're not contesting the assertion that Bitcoin uses lots of energy, but deflecting the issue by saying it is irrelevant that it uses lots of energy and it's more the responsibility of policymakers to make the e…
Bitcoin Is a Hideous Monstrosity Made Out of Computers and Greed
121–130 of 184 posts
Re: Bitcoin Is a Hideous Monstrosity Made Out of Computers and Greed
#122Many of my Ukraininan/Russian friends would not be alive today if it wasn't for crypto, same goes for many journalists and innocent civilians that escaped controlling governments, war zones, hyperinflation etc. Show me another asset that you can take with you in times of crisis on a usb stick or piece of paper, and transact without middle-men globally. A significant number of people live in places where saying/doing…
> Dunno why you would fight against a fair, open, censorship-resistant, global financial system If that's all it was then you would be correct, only nasty folks would be against it. But that's not all it is, or even the main thing it is. The same qualities that make it useful for your friends during a war also make it useful for various sorts of crime, but all the time not just under (what should be) highly unusual a…
First we start with scammers and crooks, then fast forward a little, and suddenly now we are doing civil forfeitures?
Either something is permissionless, or it isn’t.
Re: Bitcoin Is a Hideous Monstrosity Made Out of Computers and Greed
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
SEPA takes 10 seconds? My bank only guarantees it'll reach recipient in 24h and I have strong suspicion they only mean business days.
SEPA Instant Transfer takes 10 seconds, a normal SEPA Transfer takes 1 business day [0]. [0] https://www.paysera.com/v2/en/blog/what-is-sepa
Re: Bitcoin Is a Hideous Monstrosity Made Out of Computers and Greed
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Bitcoin disappearing tomorrow wouldn't make a dent in our current fossil fuel emissions. Bitcoin mining ASICs don't emit CO2. Take it up with policymakers who subsidize fossil fuels. This sounds a lot like you're not contesting the assertion that Bitcoin uses lots of energy, but deflecting the issue by saying it is irrelevant that it uses lots of energy and it's more the responsibility of policymakers to make the e…
I'm not contesting it no. And I'm saying it's a perfectly valid use of energy. It will use even more energy in future. And it's worth it. Energy use doesn't need defending and isn't a bad thing. Energy secures the financial network, it's doing that work, even if the network isn't useful to you. Disincentivising fossil fuel use for every purpose needs to happen, not just Bitcoin.
What, we will be the first spacefaring, Kardashev Type 2 civilization that is powered solely by windmills?
Why is energy demonized so much?
There will be 100x, 1000x more energy use in the future in the entire economy.
You are worried some tiny fraction of a percent is an issue?
Re: Bitcoin Is a Hideous Monstrosity Made Out of Computers and Greed
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The blockchain, smart contracts and NFTs are amazing technologies that could do wonders for mankind Like what? I'm seriously. (Not trolling, not trying to feed fires.) To me the whole thing seems bad, period, but I'm willing to entertain the idea that I'm wrong. FWIW, I think "crypto" et. al. (in quotes because to me the term means "cryptography") is pointless because the Earth is small relative to the speed of lig…
You say that trustworthy centralized systems are obviously better simply because even today there is no viable alternative to them, but you can clearly see how that is cause for all types of problems. Most times you don't know who exactly you're trusting, and sometimes you are perfectly aware that those trustworthy individuals/companies are anything but that, but you're left no choice but to """trust""" them and hope…
There are plenty of examples of betrayed trust in our supposedly trustworthy systems (to me the LIBOR scandal is a good example, or the VW emissions testing cheating scandal, or that time most of the major US tech companies conspired together to cheat their own engineers out of an estimated eight billion dollars of lost wages.) I agree with you that trust is an open problem, but it's one that I think is getting solved automatically for free by ubiquitous surveillance, if we administer it sanely.
A friend of mine thinks that CEOs and politicians should be required to submit to brain scans to weed out detectable psychological problems.
The advantage of centralization is efficiency.
> Enter the blockchain, smart contracts and all kind of buzzwords, and decentralization is finally starting to become a possibility. This blows wide open a whole lot of assumptions we make about our daily lives, so to avoid going into the political, economical, philosophical and moral aspects of what decentralization entails I'll stick to the one thing we know best: the internet.
Speaking as an open-minded but skeptical outsider, you would have to convince me that the blockchain provides/solves decentralization better than existing alternatives.
> The web as we know it today is pretty much FUBAR. You can see it on HN too, with plenty of news about websites screwing over their customers due to profit gouging, negligence, scaling/management issues... you name it. You have to trust these centralized websites that are completely closed off from everything else, and the website owner is completely in control of everything on its servers. You go to Google in order to do Google stuff the way that Google intends you to do and you have no choice on the matter. You liked that feature? Too bad, now it's gone because our internal tests found out that by removing it our conversion rate raised by 0.001%. And here, enjoy your new bloated, overdesigned UI. No, you can't switch to the old one. Also, your data is actually theirs', so they can just decide that they don't like you and just outright delete it, or sell it, or god knows what else. What do you mean you want to migrate somewhere else? Are you insane?? ...You get it. This applies to essentially every single website that you use, big and small. The data resides on the website's servers, whose security and management is up to the website's owner, and that's just how things work. In the worst case scenario websites could even act maliciously, as it happened when reddit's /u/spez abused its admin powers to change the content of comments that criticized him. All of this is unavoidable because of centralization, and hey, you agreed to the ToS after all.
Preaching to the choir my friend! I feel ya.
> That is not the case with Web3, because your data and your activity resides on the blockchain. Dapps access and interact with that data in a decentralized manner, and the resulting "status" of your account and the dapps themselves are the verifiable, unchangeable result of a sequence of actions that users performed on the blockchain through smart contracts. An example of what that means is that if for any reason a dapp you use decides to shut down their website for whatever reason, people would still be able to access and use that dapp by simply hosting the (usually open source) interface on another server and interact with the smart contract as per usual; the data and activity is still there on the blockchain, no one can seize or alter it and it will stay that way forever. You could also build your own website instead of using the official one. Also, dapps can use any other dapps' data with no restriction. To put this in perspective, the current web doesn't let you do that: you could use the provider's APIs, IF they're provided, but even then you would be subject to the limitations imposed, not to mention the provider has to actually stay up and let you access their APIs.
Again, not to be a spoilsport, but it sounds like I could do a lot of that with git and some cryptography. Maybe I just don't get it?
> Mind you, this is just the tip of the iceberg and something I wrote off the top of my head. There's a lot of cool stuff to be excited about that doesn't necessary involve money, but of course those take a lot more time and effort to be developed compared to marketing a get rich quick scheme, and certainly generate far less headlines.
> We'll see how this pans out in a couple of years, but I'd certainly be gutted to see this die off because of human greed.
On that we both agree. This stuff you're describing sounds interesting, and nothing like the scam-fest "crypto" stuff.
Re: Bitcoin Is a Hideous Monstrosity Made Out of Computers and Greed
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your idea is KISS works for finance and the rest of humanity are idiots. As you sit down and type from a device created very much by the financial engineering “complications” of the modern market (and in turn being used to create further pockets of complexity).
> As you sit down and type from a device created very much by the financial engineering “complications” of the modern market ... That's a ridiculous claim. As if the development of complex technical devices wouldn't have happened without complex financial markets and inscrutable financial business models. Complexity in finance .. up to a certain degree it may well serve the purposes of society .. beyond some level th…
Re: Bitcoin Is a Hideous Monstrosity Made Out of Computers and Greed
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good luck forcing redistribution using central authorities. The very reason for the existence of modern loans is to bypass their stupidity. You do not comprehend the literal scale of the problem. You have to replace every fucking bank employee with a govt employee (in simple terms). If you think a central body is bloated now…
> You do not comprehend the literal scale of the problem. Phew, OK, if you write so. > You have to replace every fucking bank employee with a govt employee .. No, all it needs is a reasonable tax system without loopholes and where taxes are well balanced and of course reasonable services provided by the state funded by these taxes.
Re: Bitcoin Is a Hideous Monstrosity Made Out of Computers and Greed
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Dunno why you would fight against a fair, open, censorship-resistant, global financial system If that's all it was then you would be correct, only nasty folks would be against it. But that's not all it is, or even the main thing it is. The same qualities that make it useful for your friends during a war also make it useful for various sorts of crime, but all the time not just under (what should be) highly unusual a…
How do you create an “open and censorship resistant system” that blocks only a specific category of people? First we start with scammers and crooks, then fast forward a little, and suddenly now we are doing civil forfeitures? Either something is permissionless, or it isn’t.
The current rise of ubiquitous surveillance is already creating a censorship-resistant system. Whether it's open or not is a matter of policy, rather than technology.
> First we start with scammers and crooks, then fast forward a little, and suddenly now we are doing civil forfeitures?
That's a really good point: I would hope if there were more footage of civil forfeiture it would be harder to get away with it, eh? If everybody can see what everybody else-- including police and politicians --is up to then we can only get away with what everybody (or most everybody) accepts. I call it the "Tyranny of Mrs. Grundy".
Re: Bitcoin Is a Hideous Monstrosity Made Out of Computers and Greed
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bitcoin is voluntary. The goal is better money. If you take on that big of a challenge, you kinda need people to participate with their "old" money. It's called adoption. Just like internet would have no value if nobody participated, bitcoin has no value if nobody participates. Do you send email to yourself? No. Do you shop from a non-existing platform? no.
> The goal is better money. Except when someone points out it's terrible at that, its goal magically becomes something else. Which it's probably terrible at, and then the goal shifts again.
For anyone else reading these comments, HN will not let me reply to all of your as I'm posting too fast. I would love to reply to every comment here. All very valid concerns and criticisms, although misplaced, deeply misunderstood. I don't blame you. If I were a skeptic of something, I would probably not put 1000 hours of educating myself on that subject. I am not here to convince anyone of anything. Don't buy bitcoin. In fact, buy the short ETF out (today?) if you are so convinced it's not going anywhere positive. I really don't care. It would be great if more people were less emotional about Bitcoin just because it has monetary properties and seems like a ponzi, and actually took the time to think about it more deeply - but I understand that you're busy and would rather dismiss it. Fine by me.
Proshares etf to short bitcoin: https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/BITO Vote with your conviction.
Re: Bitcoin Is a Hideous Monstrosity Made Out of Computers and Greed
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you create an “open and censorship resistant system” that blocks only a specific category of people? First we start with scammers and crooks, then fast forward a little, and suddenly now we are doing civil forfeitures? Either something is permissionless, or it isn’t.
> How do you create an “open and censorship resistant system” that blocks only a specific category of people? The current rise of ubiquitous surveillance is already creating a censorship-resistant system. Whether it's open or not is a matter of policy, rather than technology. > First we start with scammers and crooks, then fast forward a little, and suddenly now we are doing civil forfeitures? That's a really good po…