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I am a programmer

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: I am a programmer

#121

Post by kiba »

javert wrote: post #115
sounds wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you javert, that increased efficiency and productivity are good things. But I do so for a fairly uncommon reason: I think that we have very little idea of the capacity of one person. Our economy is still marked by massive disruption: technological innovation isn't just limited to services. Process engineering, chemical engineering, astronomy, physics, linguistics, archeology, ... they're all experiencing…

I like what you're saying. However, you're not answering your comment's grandparent: how to avoid, cope with, or assume away the concern that a super-high-tech economy will leave unemployed people who aren't intellectually sophisticated enough to participate.

or assume away the concern that a super-high-tech economy will leave unemployed people who aren't intellectually sophisticated enough to participate.

Is changing your intellectual sophistication hard? I mean, I learn programming by basically bashing my fingers against the keyboard. The concepts aren't difficult to learn, but it require tons of practice to become competent.

Re: I am a programmer

#122

Post by javert »

kiba wrote: post #121
javert wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like what you're saying. However, you're not answering your comment's grandparent: how to avoid, cope with, or assume away the concern that a super-high-tech economy will leave unemployed people who aren't intellectually sophisticated enough to participate.

or assume away the concern that a super-high-tech economy will leave unemployed people who aren't intellectually sophisticated enough to participate. Is changing your intellectual sophistication hard? I mean, I learn programming by basically bashing my fingers against the keyboard. The concepts aren't difficult to learn, but it require tons of practice to become competent.

Well, that's one (potentially valid) way to explain away the concern.

(I should have said "explain away" instead of "assume away.")

Re: I am a programmer

#123

Post by ChuckMcM »

I don't think you are (a programmer).

From the article:

"Programmers are guys and girls that can take real-world problems, that can analyze those problems and that use that analysis to come up with a way to improve the world, usually in an incremental but sometimes in a revolutionary manner by solving those problems (hopefully) once and for all."

You are a systems analyst. The difference (to me at least) is that a programmer solves the presented problem by writing a program, a systems analyst solves the problem by tuning or refactoring the system. Sometimes all that takes is programming, but sometimes it takes more than that, a new data base schema, a different partitioning of roles of machines participating in the solution, user education, or even getting the rules of the game changed.

Re: I am a programmer

#124

Post by mcteapot »

javert wrote: post #122
kiba wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or assume away the concern that a super-high-tech economy will leave unemployed people who aren't intellectually sophisticated enough to participate. Is changing your intellectual sophistication hard? I mean, I learn programming by basically bashing my fingers against the keyboard. The concepts aren't difficult to learn, but it require tons of practice to become competent.

Well, that's one (potentially valid) way to explain away the concern. (I should have said "explain away" instead of "assume away.")

I personally work a lot with 3d animation. We use plugins and pre-made elements to create our animations. Because we are using 3rd party tools to create our final product, does this make us "middle-men (and women), glorified translators", Or is it only real if we where to make our tools form scratch.

Re: I am a programmer

#125

Post by drivingmenuts »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #123

I don't think you are (a programmer). From the article: "Programmers are guys and girls that can take real-world problems, that can analyze those problems and that use that analysis to come up with a way to improve the world, usually in an incremental but sometimes in a revolutionary manner by solving those problems (hopefully) once and for all." You are a systems analyst. The difference (to me at least) is that a pr…

Given all that, I'd still rather be called a programmer. Anything else sounds like I'm showing off.

Re: I am a programmer

#126

Post by bluedanieru »

kiba wrote: post #121
javert wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like what you're saying. However, you're not answering your comment's grandparent: how to avoid, cope with, or assume away the concern that a super-high-tech economy will leave unemployed people who aren't intellectually sophisticated enough to participate.

or assume away the concern that a super-high-tech economy will leave unemployed people who aren't intellectually sophisticated enough to participate. Is changing your intellectual sophistication hard? I mean, I learn programming by basically bashing my fingers against the keyboard. The concepts aren't difficult to learn, but it require tons of practice to become competent.

Is changing your intellectual sophistication hard?

Uhm, how isolated are you from large swaths of society, to ask this question? The answer is yes, once a person matures into adulthood if they haven't acquired this and an appreciation for learning they almost certainly aren't going to. There are people who regard most intellectual activity with disinterest in the best case, and outright hostility in the worst. This group of people is known as "almost everybody in the world".

As for what to do with them, probably the most consistent approach if you want to stick to something resembling market economics is to let them starve. My objection to that isn't so much moral as it is practical (i.e. I dislike riots), and I favor giving them money instead.

Re: I am a programmer

#127

Post by scottschulthess »

Honestly, who besides programmers even know the difference between software engineers and programmers?

I personally don't really think there is a difference. They are essentially the same thing. I'm both and I don't really see a case where I'd call myself one and not the other.

So who is making the distinction? Us (engineers) or other people?

If you really want to make the assertion that non-engineers are making the distinction between programmers and software engineers, who do you think told them what the difference was?

Re: I am a programmer

#129

Post by sounds »

javert wrote: post #115
sounds wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you javert, that increased efficiency and productivity are good things. But I do so for a fairly uncommon reason: I think that we have very little idea of the capacity of one person. Our economy is still marked by massive disruption: technological innovation isn't just limited to services. Process engineering, chemical engineering, astronomy, physics, linguistics, archeology, ... they're all experiencing…

I like what you're saying. However, you're not answering your comment's grandparent: how to avoid, cope with, or assume away the concern that a super-high-tech economy will leave unemployed people who aren't intellectually sophisticated enough to participate.

That's a good point. The other replies suggest that "almost everybody in the world" is unlikely to learn new skills, yet they are doing amazingly well, at some things.

Threats to survival do tend to motivate "almost everybody" to attempt new skills, or attempt to change things in their favor. I deliberately avoided saying what the changes ought to be. And I don't think there are real, present threats to survival for most of us. I don't think it's a good idea to rain down mandates on "everybody else," when society is already discovering better means by working organically. I like to think of that as innovation.

My main intent in posting was to point out that there are solutions being found -- not by the "invisible hand" of economics, but by the collaborative efforts of the non-intellectual non-sophisticated "unwilling participants." Though I think education eventually has the highest payoff, I enjoy working at a community level with the innovation happening all around me.

Re: I am a programmer

#130

Post by justatdotin »

T-hawk wrote: post #77
justatdotin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

engineer, architect ... I wanna be a software astronaut when I grow up.

Are you referencing Joel Spolsky's article on software astronauts? http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000018.html

ah, no, thanks!
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