121–130 of 313 posts
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Can we also make a hostile work environment to pro-union employees? Or is this another one of those hypocrite things?
Just move the office to a low tax country / state. Union people will refuse to move there.
I don't understand unions for tech workers. We're not living in shacks rented to us by the company and can't afford a bus ticket to a new city or school to start a new life. We're making six figures here. Want more pay? Sit on your butt and do leetcode or practice interviews and network with other rich programmers. Move to a tropical island and work remote. Heck, you don't even need to go to college and just about an…
Definitely wouldn't want to be part of a union. I represent myself, thanks. Smaller and wide set of unions in an industry can be effective, but industry wide unions are effectively a monopoly on labor supply and bad for society. Look no further than the MTA in NYC. Terrible cost overruns and bad governance of the subway system, for what? So employees can clock extra hours and get egregiously overpaid? No thanks. Comp…
> Competitive markets produce societally best outcomes Define "societally best outcomes". By using the word "societally", you are saying it's not he best outcome for the business, nor is it the best outcome for the employees, nor the best outcome for the customers, but the best outcome for the society at large. Your MTA example shows that a union is great for workers. Please explain. Considering unions are used succe…
Because it's illegal not to. I dunno if you know this but if you have a union shop, the company can't just hire non-union employees. (In most cases) Once your company unionizes you can hire union employees, or go out of business.
Realistically what companies do is incorporate a subsidiary in a non-union jurisdiction and outsource the jobs to the subsidiary.
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> Competition applies to labor too, by the way Yes, which is why unions are great. Corporations bargain collectively by default; each is a large unit, with a lot of resources, composed of many people. Unions allow individuals to bargain collectively, to match corporations in terms of leverage, because few individuals are valuable enough to even come close.
> Corporations bargain collectively by default; Only with unskilled labor. My profession is skilled and the skillset is in demand and hard to find. I bargain for myself, thanks. I have repeatedly and at length discussed on HN about my 3 separate union membership experiences and how I will never again repeat them.
Judging by that history, you aren't doing so well. Good luck, and hopefully things improve!
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A recently unionized workplace can get hostile to workers who opposed it. This is fine by me: if you opposed the majority of your coworkers in their struggle for better material working conditions, then you should feel their resentment.
Can we also make a hostile work environment to pro-union employees? Or is this another one of those hypocrite things?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_busting
Historically, it would be hard to argue otherwise. It is lucrative to remove bargaining leverage from labor.
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A recently unionized workplace can get hostile to workers who opposed it. This is fine by me: if you opposed the majority of your coworkers in their struggle for better material working conditions, then you should feel their resentment.
It's not possible that people who were anti-union could think that working conditions would not improve with the addition of a union?
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A union tends to be a monopoly on labor supply in most cases. Not a competitive labor market. Bargaining collectively = monopoly. They can raise wages up to the level of marginal profit of the employing company. Just the same as a company that's a monopoly could raise prices up to marginal value of the good to the customer. If the company can bypass the union to hire others, then it's not a monopoly. But if the union…
> Distorted wages for labor is not good for broader society Real life on planet earth disagrees pretty hard with you. Google "___est countries". Pick a metric that shows policy impacts. Say, health, happiness, etc. The kind of metrics that aren't abstract BS and can't be cherry-picked. Pick the first, say, five. Then look up their unionization rates. I'll spoil it for you. Nordic countries win (it doesn't even matter…
> Google "___est countries".
How about I Google which countries have the largest revenues for their technology companies, and the senior-level salaries of their employees?
Definitely wouldn't want to be part of a union. I represent myself, thanks. Smaller and wide set of unions in an industry can be effective, but industry wide unions are effectively a monopoly on labor supply and bad for society. Look no further than the MTA in NYC. Terrible cost overruns and bad governance of the subway system, for what? So employees can clock extra hours and get egregiously overpaid? No thanks. Comp…
Edit: also, there’s a history of multiple private subway companies in NYC, it didn’t work out.
1. https://www.cityandstateny.com/politics/2021/01/how-the-mta-...
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> Corporations bargain collectively by default; Only with unskilled labor. My profession is skilled and the skillset is in demand and hard to find. I bargain for myself, thanks. I have repeatedly and at length discussed on HN about my 3 separate union membership experiences and how I will never again repeat them.
I wouldn't divide it between skilled and unskilled. It's more a product of supply and demand. Unskilled labor can have decent bargaining power if there's a shortage of unskilled labor. It just so happens that there tends to more frequently be shortages of skilled labor
Not really, because that’s the definition of unskilled: it takes no special skills to do the job. So if there’s a shortage and wages go up dramatically then skilled labor can take its place. (The opposite is not possible/ advisable though.)
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> Corporations bargain collectively by default; Only with unskilled labor. My profession is skilled and the skillset is in demand and hard to find. I bargain for myself, thanks. I have repeatedly and at length discussed on HN about my 3 separate union membership experiences and how I will never again repeat them.
The no-poach cartel that ruled big tech for like a decade would like to have a word.