Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

gamasutra.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 135 posts

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#121

Post by cbs »

pessimizer wrote: post #27
kbutler wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The second hand game market really short changes the publishers, and it's very expensive to make a top title! No, it doesn't. "The second hand car market really short changes the auto manufacturers."

The car-intellectual property comparison is dubious when the MPAA is comparing downloading movies to carjacking, and it's equally dubious in this situation. When you're sold a DVD in a game on it, you're buying the physical DVD to the same degree to which you're buying the wrapper when you buy a candy bar - as a container of the useful purchase. When you're buying a car, you're buying a car.

Your analogy doesn't really show anything. The candybar is consumed on use. Software isn't, but they're trying to make it so.

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#122

Post by saw-lau »

DanBC wrote: post #30
kbutler wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The second hand game market really short changes the publishers, and it's very expensive to make a top title! No, it doesn't. "The second hand car market really short changes the auto manufacturers."

A better analogy is "the second hand book market really short changes the book publishers (or authors)".

This is definitely a better analogy, but I actually agree that the second-hand games market is hurting the publishers, particularly the legitimised selling of pre-owned titles by bricks and mortar retailers.

There are always going to be x% of people who will get hold of the game for free (and x is going to rise as the means of obtaining them gets easier). So let's say 1,000,000 people are interested in playing 'Super Mega Hooper!' and 500,000 will find a way to obtain this for nothing. Before the dramatic rise in pre-owned sales, 500,000 would buy it from a retailer, and 500,000 lots of cut would go to the publisher. Now, only - say - 250,000 lots of cut go to the publisher with the other 250,000 people giving more of a cut to the retailer.

I'd say that over the last ten years of so the average price of a full-price game has remained reasonably constant given inflation, and the cost to produce (AAA) games has risen. Therefore: net loss to publishers using the traditional retail model.

(Of course, there has been plenty of opportunity for publishers to move away from the traditional model, but I'd argue that the culture of buying pre-owned is definitely having an affect on them.)

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#123

Post by nhangen »

Confusion wrote: post #99
nhangen wrote: post #90

I pay for DirectTV, Verizion FIOS, Netflix, and have an Apple TV, yet I still can't get content delivered how I want it. The only thing the big networks get right is sports. If I forget to record something, I have to go to Hulu, where I can't stream it to my TV in HD unless I buy another device. My alternative is to pay 99 cents (or more) on iTunes. I also have to buy a switch so I don't run out of HDMI ports, and it…

If these services don't provide what you want, why don't you get rid of them? Try no subscription at all for a while, then start adding what truly seems to add value. You'll newly appreciate those services, save money and have more time.

I rarely watch, it's mostly my wife trying to zone out after a long day of changing diapers, but I like having options. I just wish cable companies 'got it.'

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#124

Post by nhangen »

zbisch wrote: post #92
nhangen wrote: post #90

I pay for DirectTV, Verizion FIOS, Netflix, and have an Apple TV, yet I still can't get content delivered how I want it. The only thing the big networks get right is sports. If I forget to record something, I have to go to Hulu, where I can't stream it to my TV in HD unless I buy another device. My alternative is to pay 99 cents (or more) on iTunes. I also have to buy a switch so I don't run out of HDMI ports, and it…

I don't mean to sound critical but why do you think networks get sports right? I actually feel like this is one of the worst offenders. Say I want to watch every Chicago Blackhawks game this season (or any other hockey team). Well, then I need to sign up for Versus. In order to get that I need to sign up for a Cable/satellite service. But I don't want all the channels, I watch what I want on broadcast or rent/stream.…

Actually, you're right. I wish I could just pay for Sunday Ticket and nothing else. The same goes with some of the soccer channels I don't get but wish I did.

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#125

Post by sdm »

jasonlotito wrote: post #95
Tsagadai wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do and it is a pain. There is a way around it though. You can use Steams website to buy games. Use http://store.steampowered.com/?cc=XX where XX is the two letter country code you have access to. They still check address and payment details match but this does allow you to use paypal. The sooner the content world gets rid of silly region restrictions the better we will all be. It is ridiculous that even with tra…

In many ways, the content world is also limited by local laws. For example, in Canada, media distribution is required to provide a certain amount of Canadian content (iirc). The point is, it's not just one sided.

This only covers radio and television. The CRTC has been very clear it can't/won't regulate online services. See it's decision a few months back about Netflix.

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#126

Post by shinratdr »

DanBC wrote: post #58
shinratdr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who buys used PC games? Why should I trust you not to have copied the CD key? This is a reasonable enough argument for not buying digital titles on a console, but seems irrelevant in regards to the topic at hand, which is PC gaming.

Here's a stack exchange question about retail boxed games with Steam activation: ( http://gaming.stackexchange.com/q/30550/11676 ) >I finished both games and I was thinking of reselling them or giving them to a friend to play. However, these are both Steam activated games that had a required Steam registration code I had to enter -- and validate on Steam -- as part of the installation. Here's the website for CEX - a…

I don't see the relevancy of the StackExchange question at all.

As for the business that resells PC games, they are doing so at great risk to themselves. I'm aware of every small game store in Toronto and I have never seen one that would even begin to consider reselling PC games. There might be a way to do it with a strictly warehouse model but in a brick and mortar situation it's just not feasible. Simply verifying if CD keys are active would absorb way too much time and money.

One business has made a go at it, it's still hardly standard for the industry and TBH I wouldn't buy anything from them and neither would 99% of people. The CD Key system is designed for one user/one seat. Anything past that is strictly on the honour system. As someone who has been burned by pirated hardware carts, I don't trust a used PC game for a second.

This is not a common thing at all, and I still think the "reselling used games" argument is basically irrelevant when it comes to PC games. We lost that fight decades ago, it's time to move on.

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#127

Post by wnight »

w1ntermute wrote: post #33
wccrawford wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it should be noted that Steam's pre-release anti-piracy has no yet been broken. So it's not like they don't do DRM... Having said that, the conclusion is pretty much in line with what many gamers and pirates have been saying: Stop screwing the customer and creating pirates of them. I'm lucky enough to live in an English-speaking country, but I'm sure that if I lived in a country that typically sees long delays be…

> I'm lucky enough to live in an English-speaking country, but I'm sure that if I lived in a country that typically sees long delays before localization, I'd find a way to get it early. Localization isn't just bureaucratic nonsense that was conjured up to aggravate gamers in foreign countries - the games actually need to be translated to the local language. As for if you were living in one of those countries as an ex…

It is (just bureaucratic nonsense) if they aren't willing to sell a foreign version of the game to those who want it.

Steam uses region codes, much like DVDs, to deny you the language of your choice - because they screw with prices by area and don't want to lose this ability.

Even Steam's DRM is too much. If for whatever reason they disable your account or some of your games there's nothing you can do. Your games are just gone. As if someone came in and cut up your DVDs. Except that if you had had DVDs you could just re-download them and your keys would still work.

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#128

Post by wnight »

Tsagadai wrote: post #88
bluedanieru wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm lucky enough to live in an English-speaking country, but I'm sure that if I lived in a country that typically sees long delays before localization, I'd find a way to get it early. Even if that meant learning English and engaging in piracy. Well lucky you. Steam is no better in this regard than anyone else though; they do region lockouts. Valve doesn't with their games afaik, but Steam certainly does.

They do and it is a pain. There is a way around it though. You can use Steams website to buy games. Use http://store.steampowered.com/?cc=XX where XX is the two letter country code you have access to. They still check address and payment details match but this does allow you to use paypal. The sooner the content world gets rid of silly region restrictions the better we will all be. It is ridiculous that even with tra…

Watch it. If they find out you do that they'll disable the games and perhaps your whole account.

Region coding should be illegal. Or rather, enforcing it.

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#129

Post by Poyeyo »

getsat wrote: post #36
pixie_ wrote: post #29

Nowadays if a game isn't on Steam I just won't buy it. Mainly because keeping game CDs around is too much a hassle. When I buy something on Steam, I know I have that game for life and can re-install it quickly on any computer.

> I have that game for life Not for life, but rather for the life of Steam as a platform. I don't see Valve going away anytime soon, but you never know...

That's probably a lot longer than my own life expectancy.

I would only think in those terms if I could get to live forever.

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#130

Post by DanBC »

shinratdr wrote: post #126
DanBC wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a stack exchange question about retail boxed games with Steam activation: ( http://gaming.stackexchange.com/q/30550/11676 ) >I finished both games and I was thinking of reselling them or giving them to a friend to play. However, these are both Steam activated games that had a required Steam registration code I had to enter -- and validate on Steam -- as part of the installation. Here's the website for CEX - a…

I don't see the relevancy of the StackExchange question at all. As for the business that resells PC games, they are doing so at great risk to themselves. I'm aware of every small game store in Toronto and I have never seen one that would even begin to consider reselling PC games. There might be a way to do it with a strictly warehouse model but in a brick and mortar situation it's just not feasible. Simply verifying…

>I don't see the relevancy of the StackExchange question at all.

The parent asked "Who sells PC games anyway?" The stack exchange question is from someone who wanted to sell / give away retail boxed games with Steam activation.

Post reply on HN