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Food security and the coming storm

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Re: Food security and the coming storm

#121

Post by guerrilla »

tomjen3 wrote: post #112
DeathArrow wrote: post #104

This might mean new waves of immigration from Middle East and Africa to Europe. The last ones caused some stirring. I expect a new wave will cause, too. So we can see some pressure from European governments for finding solutions to end the war.

That should be no problem: stop them at the border.

Which would kill them and cause massive suffering, so... no? I don't understand how people can be both this cruel and want to propagate such a norm: What happens when it's your turn to starve outside the gate? This kind of rhetoric is _not_ in your self-interest. Nobody is immune to the potential to need to migrate.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#122

Post by guerrilla »

XorNot wrote: post #59
aftbit wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow I didn't realize the ruble has been strengthening despite the sanctions, but it is true.[1] 1: https://www.google.com/finance/quote/RUB-USD?window=6M

The Russian government has extremely limited avenues to trade Rubles publicly, and exercises dictatorial control over those within its borders who attempt to do so. The rate is essentially fictional - you theoretical seller, cannot get that rate. [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/russias-rouble-rebo...

That article is really outdated (from before Russia forced payment in rubles), many capital controls were lifted, foreign exchange is allowed up to a limit. I've seen people still making the claim but much more of the opposite. A lot of people on Bloomberg have contradicted precisely this on air. Most of the evidence in the two month old article is anecdotal and unsourced anyway.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#123

Post by Throwawayaerlei »

guerrilla wrote: post #119
tomp wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last wave, only one country (Hungary) handled the problem sensible (building a wall, encouraging locals having more kids). The rest of the governments mostly pretended the problem doesn't exist. I expect this to change with any future waves. It's hard to be a trendsetter, but easy to be a follower.

> In the last wave, only one country (Hungary) handled the problem sensible (building a wall, encouraging locals having more kids). You left out the part about turning to fascism. Anyway, none of what you mentioned helped immigrants nor resolved the reason for their immigration, so it seems more like the least sensible being that it was a complete failure. > The rest of the governments mostly pretended the problem do…

"You left out the part about turning to fascism."

Why do you think people "turn to fascism" in the first place??

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#124

Post by tomp »

guerrilla wrote: post #119
tomp wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last wave, only one country (Hungary) handled the problem sensible (building a wall, encouraging locals having more kids). The rest of the governments mostly pretended the problem doesn't exist. I expect this to change with any future waves. It's hard to be a trendsetter, but easy to be a follower.

> In the last wave, only one country (Hungary) handled the problem sensible (building a wall, encouraging locals having more kids). You left out the part about turning to fascism. Anyway, none of what you mentioned helped immigrants nor resolved the reason for their immigration, so it seems more like the least sensible being that it was a complete failure. > The rest of the governments mostly pretended the problem do…

> You left out the part about turning to fascism

"Everyone I disagree with is a Nazi." [1] In the real world, Orban was just reelected with overwhelming majority (increasing his vote share). He didn't contribute to the causes of said migration and didn't set out to solve the problem either, he just made sure his country and the people that elected him were minimally impacted.

> We housed, clothed, fed and educated millions of people in need of our help and it was an amazing success!

This is precisely the problem. In Europe, we maintain a high standard of living, and a social safety net. That simply isn't logically compatible with unrestricted illegal immigration (because the resources with which we run the social safety net aren't infinite). We need different solutions, preferably solving these problems (food, housing, ...) where they happen (would also be much cheaper!)

[1] https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/021/818/hit...

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#125

Post by guerrilla »

Throwawayaerlei wrote: post #123
guerrilla wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the last wave, only one country (Hungary) handled the problem sensible (building a wall, encouraging locals having more kids). You left out the part about turning to fascism. Anyway, none of what you mentioned helped immigrants nor resolved the reason for their immigration, so it seems more like the least sensible being that it was a complete failure. > The rest of the governments mostly pretended the problem do…

"You left out the part about turning to fascism." Why do you think people "turn to fascism" in the first place??

Because they are racist natioanlist authoritarians and they perceive it as benefiting them.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#126

Post by Throwawayaerlei »

radford-neal wrote: post #51

No mention of the amount of food diverted to biofuels, such as corn being converted to ethanol. Stopping doing that would be the easiest way to increase food production. Maybe this omission has something to do with their ritual invocation (on no evidence) of climate change as a cause of the food shortfall. Not mentioning biofuels may be a matter of solidarity with other climate alarmists. Even though biofuels are a t…

Carbohydrates are the real feed stock in corn (maize) used to make ethanol. Left over are "distillers grains" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distillers_grains as in "protein, fibre, fat" which is used as animal fodder, especially for ruminants who can digest the fiber.

The real total loss is in biodiesel made from vegetable fats. I can't remember the numbers now, but I read the German use of them is a substantial fraction of the sunflower oil that's no longer available from the Ukraine.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#127

Post by guerrilla »

tomp wrote: post #124
guerrilla wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the last wave, only one country (Hungary) handled the problem sensible (building a wall, encouraging locals having more kids). You left out the part about turning to fascism. Anyway, none of what you mentioned helped immigrants nor resolved the reason for their immigration, so it seems more like the least sensible being that it was a complete failure. > The rest of the governments mostly pretended the problem do…

> You left out the part about turning to fascism "Everyone I disagree with is a Nazi." [1] In the real world, Orban was just reelected with overwhelming majority (increasing his vote share). He didn't contribute to the causes of said migration and didn't set out to solve the problem either, he just made sure his country and the people that elected him were minimally impacted. > We housed, clothed, fed and educated mi…

"Everyone who calls someone is a Nazi just disagrees with them." It couldn't possibly be that they are actually racist nationalist traditionalist authoritarian capitalists who don't even bother hiding that fact from anyone and who literally blame Jews for the worlds problems.

> In the real world, Orban was just reelected with overwhelming majority (increasing his vote share)

You do realize Hitler was elected with an overwhelming majority too, right?

> and the people that elected him were minimally impacted.

Right, by letting people at their doorstep die. That's the problem.

> This is precisely the problem.

No, it was the solution to the actual existing problem.

> unrestricted illegal immigration

First, we weren't talking about "illegal immigration", we were talking about millions of refugees. Second, nothing about it was unrestricted.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#128

Post by progman32 »

devchix wrote: post #101
pharmakom wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time for me is by far the limiting factor. Short of a personal chef (too expensive) all the quick options are unhealthy. Edit: Loads of people suggesting cooking - I know how to cook, I just don’t have the time or energy. It’s not just preparation time but also the planning aspect. Meal prep delivery services suggestions are interesting. I have tried a few and found them expensive and low quality. Open to trying more…

>I think what I really want is a work canteen, but open to the public I think what I want is an ordinary, a set meal at a local tavern "ordained" at a time and price. I think restaurants evolved to serve a variety of dishes, where the ordinary (sometimes a bed and board place) served only one meal, but different meals on different days. I'd buy a subscription to a canteen style Bouchon, one meal a day, 30 different m…

By far the aspect of college life (USA) that I miss the most is this. The communal meal tables and optional community canteen subscription. I wish these kind of establishments were common across the USA.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#129

Post by guerrilla »

tomp wrote: post #109
joenathanone wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a short sighted comment, no, it would be best to have an efficient system where excess food could either be stored or delivered to those with food insecurities.

No, your comment is short-sighted. Ideally, you'd have a system that would massively over -produce food (and feed everybody and store some) so that localised disruptions / crop failures wouldn't bring the whole system down.

I'm pretty sure that's what they meant.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#130

Post by Throwawayaerlei »

guerrilla wrote: post #127
tomp wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You left out the part about turning to fascism "Everyone I disagree with is a Nazi." [1] In the real world, Orban was just reelected with overwhelming majority (increasing his vote share). He didn't contribute to the causes of said migration and didn't set out to solve the problem either, he just made sure his country and the people that elected him were minimally impacted. > We housed, clothed, fed and educated mi…

"Everyone who calls someone is a Nazi just disagrees with them." It couldn't possibly be that they are actually racist nationalist traditionalist authoritarian capitalists who don't even bother hiding that fact from anyone and who literally blame Jews for the worlds problems. > In the real world, Orban was just reelected with overwhelming majority (increasing his vote share) You do realize Hitler was elected with an…

"You do realize Hitler was elected with an overwhelming majority too, right?"

Hitler or rather the Nazi party infamously didn't win "with an overwhelming majority" in November 1932. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_1932_German_federal_e... reminds me they "lost 34 seats and again failed to form a coalition government in the Reichstag" (emphasis added). They gained power by non-electoral means after this, starting with a deal where President Hindenburg made Hitler chancellor and they had "a short-lived coalition government formed by the NSDAP and the German National People's Party (DNVP)." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power...)

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