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Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

nature.com

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Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#121

Post by qbasic_forever »

toolz wrote: post #107
DennisP wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of total deaths has gone up a little more than the number of known covid deaths. You do the math.

in countries that avoided hugely disruptive lockdowns the excess mortality barely moved at all. Sweden, a noteable example because the media attacked them for a year, was the worst faring non-lockdown country in the world and they still don't even break top 30 countries excess deaths during covid. Not only that, but in 2021 sweden had the lowest excess mortality in the entirety of Europe. So let's not pretend the mat…

Your view of what happened in Sweden does not match the reality that their approach to COVID-19 caused excessive death and suffering: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01097-5 Compared to the other nordic countries nextdoor to them Sweden had more death and worse outcomes overall.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#122

Post by qbasic_forever »

spookthesunset wrote: post #109
qbasic_forever wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First you say "we should compare COVID to the flu" and now you say "look there's no way you can compare COVID to the flu". And then top it all off with the classic, "well you just can't trust any science in the last two years". You clearly are not arguing in good faith or of sound mind.

People in my area completely lost their minds. Like it was as if somebody cracked open their head and ran a stick blender up there. Some of the smartest people I knew bought so deeply into this stuff that when they'd harass me and call me a "grandma killer", it was basically word salad coming out of their mouth. It was nuts! Of course I'm calling in suspect pretty much every bit of research conducted over the last tw…

What if they're the rational ones are you are being irrational? Wouldn't you have the same perception?

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#123

Post by notahacker »

vorpalhex wrote: post #79
Angostura wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am logical as they come > the (clearly engineered) Yeh. No.

The lab leak hypothesis is still well in the realm of possible. Not known but not impossible.

There's a big difference between "lab leak makes some sense given it was the same city and lab leaks are known to have spread respiratory viruses before" which is a reasonable starting point for an investigation and "clearly engineered".

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#124

Post by toolz »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #121
toolz wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in countries that avoided hugely disruptive lockdowns the excess mortality barely moved at all. Sweden, a noteable example because the media attacked them for a year, was the worst faring non-lockdown country in the world and they still don't even break top 30 countries excess deaths during covid. Not only that, but in 2021 sweden had the lowest excess mortality in the entirety of Europe. So let's not pretend the mat…

Your view of what happened in Sweden does not match the reality that their approach to COVID-19 caused excessive death and suffering: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01097-5 Compared to the other nordic countries nextdoor to them Sweden had more death and worse outcomes overall.

you mean the neighboring countries that objectively had similar (or even lower) restrictions than sweden? The countries like norway, finland and denmark that got labeled as "strict lockdown" countries only because it was politically expendient? You mean those neighbors?

https://i.imgur.com/bjWZS81.png

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-stringency-index

oh and here are some excess deaths you can compare across norway sweden and denmark - the difference is negligible - and this image doesn't even include 2021 where sweden had literally the lowest excess death in europe

https://preview.redd.it/u8etorcogu451.png?width=756&format=p...

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#125

Post by notahacker »

JamesBarney wrote: post #27

The problem with a study like this is that they probably aren't doing a good job distinguish true long covid from psychosomatic long covid. And there is a lot of evidence that "long covid" correlates much more highly with pre-existing anxiety levels than disease severity. I think long covid exists I just think there is also a lot of psychosomatic long covid and until we have a good diagnostic criteria to differentiat…

It's not an easy distinction to make though. Actual "long COVID" itself is likely to be a collection of ailments (recovery from physical damage to lungs and cardiovascular system, post-viral trigger happy immune systems, possible opportunistic infection or symptoms of existing latent virus due to COVID-induced weakness) which differ from person to person and at least some of those ailments plausibly interact with anxiety (a psychological problem that has physiological effects on blood pressure, cortisol levels etc itself)

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#126

Post by spookthesunset »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #122
spookthesunset wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in my area completely lost their minds. Like it was as if somebody cracked open their head and ran a stick blender up there. Some of the smartest people I knew bought so deeply into this stuff that when they'd harass me and call me a "grandma killer", it was basically word salad coming out of their mouth. It was nuts! Of course I'm calling in suspect pretty much every bit of research conducted over the last tw…

What if they're the rational ones are you are being irrational? Wouldn't you have the same perception?

We triply live in a post fact world. You can find “facts” and dismiss inconvenient “facts” in order to support whatever you happen believe. In fact you can even find a nice comfy echo chamber to keep you immersed in whatever you believe.

However in this case, I am pretty damn sure history will be on my side. Absolutely none of what we did over the last two years made a lick of sense. It is the first real mass hysteria of the internet age.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#127

Post by lamontcg »

bee_rider wrote: post #62

It seems like there must be a million confounding factors at thing point. Given that immunity eventually wanes and new variants show up, at what point is a person considered no longer 'vaccinated?' I get that people were excited to not need masks anymore, but I'm hanging on to my n95 in most indoor situations, even in my relatively low-risk region.

> Given that immunity eventually wanes and new variants show up

Immunity isn't one thing that wanes.

T-cells are largely permanent and cross-reactive. Somatic hypermutation means that you have B-cells to variants which don't exist yet which can be quickly activated if you encounter them.

There's more to the immune system than circulating NAbs.

The 2009 H1N1 flu pandemic was a bit of a nothingburger because after mutating in pigs for at least 50 years, people born before 1957 still had cross-reactive T-cells to the H1 protein so old people were already immunized.

This is not the human immune system's first goat rodeo with a pandemic virus.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#128

Post by notahacker »

DennisP wrote: post #111
toolz wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in countries that avoided hugely disruptive lockdowns the excess mortality barely moved at all. Sweden, a noteable example because the media attacked them for a year, was the worst faring non-lockdown country in the world and they still don't even break top 30 countries excess deaths during covid. Not only that, but in 2021 sweden had the lowest excess mortality in the entirety of Europe. So let's not pretend the mat…

Ok. And how many covid deaths did they report? Was it also low, or did they report lots of covid deaths while their overall death rate magically stayed the same? Only the latter fits your "death with covid" scenario. In the US, it seems rather unlikely that (a) doctors all over the US report a certain number of deaths that they say were caused by covid, and (b) we have about that many excess deaths, BUT (c) the exces…

Excess deaths which align with reported deaths with COVID not just in aggregate numbers, but in spikes. Spikes which also postdate spikes in infection by the roughly 30 days from infection to death observed in acute COVID patients (but don't align at all well with other things like lockdowns and economic downturns)

People die with cancer too, but few people are quite perverse enough to take that as evidence that the threat posed by cancer is exaggerated. Possibly the only comparable level of denial about the causal relationship between a well known ailment and people who don't normally die being likely to die afterwards for reasons well-explained by how that ailment affects the body I can think of is HIV/AIDs, and it's not coincidental that one's highly politicised too.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#129

Post by [deleted] »

toolz wrote: post #124
qbasic_forever wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your view of what happened in Sweden does not match the reality that their approach to COVID-19 caused excessive death and suffering: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01097-5 Compared to the other nordic countries nextdoor to them Sweden had more death and worse outcomes overall.

you mean the neighboring countries that objectively had similar (or even lower) restrictions than sweden? The countries like norway, finland and denmark that got labeled as "strict lockdown" countries only because it was politically expendient? You mean those neighbors? https://i.imgur.com/bjWZS81.png https://ourworldindata.org/covid-stringency-index oh and here are some excess deaths you can compare across norway sw…

[deleted]

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#130

Post by encoderer »

ryandrake wrote: post #49
encoderer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have taken both jnj and Moderna. But I have to admit that the grandparent has a point. It feels it’s almost heretical to say, but the vaccines were terribly over-sold. In the beginning they were sold as traditional vaccines - prevention against infection not just serious disease. But very soon we saw “breakthrough infections” (not even written about anymore as they are so common) and the goal posts started being mo…

> But very soon we saw “breakthrough infections” (not even written about anymore as they are so common) and the goal posts started being moved. It's almost as if we learned new things as time went on and more observations were made, and adjusted expectations and actions based on that new information. I know, total crazy talk.

You act like I am inventing the concept of credibility.

If you routinely say things you then have to walk back (don’t wear masks, vaccines prevent infection) then you have to expect that your credibility is damaged.

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