Poll: How much do you make as a programmer? • Hacker News Board

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#121

Post by stouset » Sun, Oct 23, 2011, 11:03 PM UTC

natrius wrote: post #119

rskar wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Social Security is a social insurance program that is primarily funded through dedicated payroll taxes called Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax (FICA). Tax deposits…

If you remove "fraudulent" from the definition of Ponzi scheme, it accurately describes Social Security. It's an unnecessarily inflammatory way to note that current beneficiaries are funded by new inductees, which is generally a problematic funding structure.

Please stop commenting on this topic until you have the slightest damn idea of what you're talking about.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/09/so...

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#122

Post by strathmeyer » Sun, Oct 23, 2011, 11:08 PM UTC

natrius wrote: post #119

rskar wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Social Security is a social insurance program that is primarily funded through dedicated payroll taxes called Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax (FICA). Tax deposits…

If you remove "fraudulent" from the definition of Ponzi scheme, it accurately describes Social Security. It's an unnecessarily inflammatory way to note that current beneficiaries are funded by new inductees, which is generally a problematic funding structure.

Shhh! When you say "Ponzi Scheme" people think you're saying "fraud" and get upset because they think you're taking way their free money!

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#123

Post by sexrobot » Sun, Oct 23, 2011, 11:21 PM UTC

40k :(

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#124

Post by natrius » Sun, Oct 23, 2011, 11:29 PM UTC

stouset wrote: post #121

natrius wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you remove "fraudulent" from the definition of Ponzi scheme, it accurately describes Social Security. It's an unnecessarily inflammatory way to note that current beneficiaries are funded by new inductees, which is generally a problematic funding structure.

Please stop commenting on this topic until you have the slightest damn idea of what you're talking about. http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/09/so...

First of all, that article doesn't refute my point that Social Security is an "investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors."

Secondly, the points the article does try to make are wrong, and the very first comment on it explains most of it. The article also suggests that things are just fine since the government can just raise taxes or reduce benefits to eliminate the problem, but doing so fundamentally breaks the promises that have been made to enrollees. You can fix the finances of any government program by paying less or charging more taxes, so it's kind of a silly argument. Social Security will probably exist forever, but its financial structure requires promises to be broken when population growth rates change (that is, when the rate of new inductees into the scheme slows).

This is off topic; I'm done talking about it.

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#125

Post by peterbessman » Sun, Oct 23, 2011, 11:36 PM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #33

[deleted] wrote: post #28

[deleted]

I honestly don't care what your salary is, but I think there are things to gain from disclosing. For one thing, we need developers (we meaning people with unmet information needs, which is pretty much all of us) and advertising how stupidly, absurdly high the salaries are might encourage kids to jump in and give it a go. For another, I don't really think that any of us is "entitled" to this money, and we can't consen…

The problem with this is that the high-end of programming salaries is the low-end of, e.g. medical salaries. Yes, there is more to it than that, but on this axis alone, programming actually does not come out on top. Those inclined to seek "absurdly high salaries" are inclined to skip over programming.

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#126

Post by kellishaver » Sun, Oct 23, 2011, 11:45 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #26

This poll exemplifies the problem with all of these polls: it doesn't say what it's measuring. I would put in vastly different numbers for base salary vs base salary + bonuses + shares + other benefits. I see the same on Glassdoor on elsewhere. The bigger problem is the people volunteering such information have differing views on what to put making such information mostly useless. Also, if life has taught me nothing…

I agree. I put less than $50k, but I also only work part-time (by choice-the money I make is enough for my needs, so I'd rather have the free time than the extra cash), which doesn't really get factored in and just makes it seem like I work for really low pay.

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#127

Post by rabidsnail » Sun, Oct 23, 2011, 11:58 PM UTC

You don't need to ask. The government has already done the polling. http://www.bls.gov/ncs/ocs/compub.htm#CA Look for "Software Engineer - Applications"

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#128

Post by brc » Mon, Oct 24, 2011, 12:12 AM UTC

rskar wrote: post #117

OstiaAntica wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully 12.4% of nearly every American's income is going to Social Security, which is a national pension scheme. (er...national Ponzi scheme)

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Social Security is a social insurance program that is primarily funded through dedicated payroll taxes called Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax (FICA). Tax deposits…

Why do some people defend the system so vehemently? It's a funds-in, funds-out scheme. New 'investors' are required to pay out old 'investors'.

I agree that 'fraudulent' is inflammatory but to pretend SS is some type of insurance or pension fund is just gilding the lily.

I think everyone would be better off if everyone was just honest about what Social Security is, and what it will be if the contribution/payout ratios start to skew badly. It's belief in financial impossibilities that get people into problems.

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#129

Post by archgoon » Mon, Oct 24, 2011, 12:44 AM UTC

brc wrote: post #128

rskar wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Social Security is a social insurance program that is primarily funded through dedicated payroll taxes called Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax (FICA). Tax deposits…

Why do some people defend the system so vehemently? It's a funds-in, funds-out scheme. New 'investors' are required to pay out old 'investors'. I agree that 'fraudulent' is inflammatory but to pretend SS is some type of insurance or pension fund is just gilding the lily. I think everyone would be better off if everyone was just honest about what Social Security is, and what it will be if the contribution/payout ratio…

> Why defend the system so vehemently He wasn't. He was stating specifically how it worked.

>I think everyone would be better off if everyone was just honest about what Social Security is Calling it a ponzi scheme doesn't accomplish this goal.

Re: Poll: How much do you make as a programmer?

#130

Post by goodweeds » Mon, Oct 24, 2011, 1:00 AM UTC

It would be fun to maps this data against geographic regions and index that against cost of living.. Except those of us in the bay area would discover that while we make $120k-$150k, our houses cost 4-6x what it costs for those who make $80-$120k in the midwest. Then we would all cry.