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U.S. Air Force says it conducted successful hypersonic weapon test

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. Air Force says it conducted successful hypersonic weapon test

#121

Post by sudosysgen »

thereddaikon wrote: post #120
sudosysgen wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia also has an air-breathing hypersonic missile with a scramjet engine - 3M22 Zircon. It is being field-tested and is already starting production after more than a dozen successful tests including hitting moving target - making them much further in development than HAWC which only recently managed to fly for any distance without blowing up and never actually struck a target. So your impression is not correct. The…

No they don't. They claim they do but if you believe Russian claims after the last three months then I can't help you. They steal money from their military to buy yachts and mansions. Russia's wunderwaffe are not operational. The US spends more on its nuclear arsenal alone every year than Russia spends on its entire military. Where is the T-14? Where is the Su-57? They exist in propaganda videos and parades. That's i…

Do you know why I believe them? Because of this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kholod?wprov=sfla1

The Russians/Soviets flew hypersonic missile prototypes before the millennium (at hypersonic speeds) - and NASA verified it. I see no reasons they can't do it again.

The rest of your response is not relevant.

And besides, if the Russians really lied about these tests conducted within US AWACS range, they'd be called out. That they haven't is tacit confirmation.

Re: U.S. Air Force says it conducted successful hypersonic weapon test

#122

Post by eternalban »

thereddaikon wrote: post #120
sudosysgen wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia also has an air-breathing hypersonic missile with a scramjet engine - 3M22 Zircon. It is being field-tested and is already starting production after more than a dozen successful tests including hitting moving target - making them much further in development than HAWC which only recently managed to fly for any distance without blowing up and never actually struck a target. So your impression is not correct. The…

No they don't. They claim they do but if you believe Russian claims after the last three months then I can't help you. They steal money from their military to buy yachts and mansions. Russia's wunderwaffe are not operational. The US spends more on its nuclear arsenal alone every year than Russia spends on its entire military. Where is the T-14? Where is the Su-57? They exist in propaganda videos and parades. That's i…

(Kamil Kazani has excellent threads on RF and Russia in general. Recommended reading.)

https://nitter.net/kamilkazani/status/1526323072483065857

Russian ex-Military and his prophetic (uncannily precise) predictions of what awaited RF in Ukraine and world at large. He discusses the fabled missiles in passing. (Google translate does a good job.)

https://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2022-02-03/3_1175_donbass.html

Re: U.S. Air Force says it conducted successful hypersonic weapon test

#123

Post by hungryforcodes »

LunaSea wrote: post #119
hungryforcodes wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have already denied the US the South China Sea -- just by expanding their economy. The US is a joke here. China -- for example -- in the last 20 years has started more than 400 companies in the Philipenes at least and where else? Structural changes to the economy, basically. While Europe and the US persist in this 1970s: "we will give the primitives subsidies and cash prizes" -- demonstrating that they are total…

Chinese fishing vessels are also invading Philippines' territorial waters and depleting the available fish resources. Is that not colonialism?

Its a good point -- but I guess when I mean "colonialism" I mean western countries trying to exploit old power structures and values to their advantage. Which is a loosing game really -- these things fade over time.

In your example China is creating new -- however sinister -- power structures on both sides. Physically with the contested islands and fishing vessels and also economically through investment and government agreements.

So it's true it's a kind of colonizing -- but it's a very different version from the past.

Re: U.S. Air Force says it conducted successful hypersonic weapon test

#124

Post by LunaSea »

hungryforcodes wrote: post #123
LunaSea wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese fishing vessels are also invading Philippines' territorial waters and depleting the available fish resources. Is that not colonialism?

Its a good point -- but I guess when I mean "colonialism" I mean western countries trying to exploit old power structures and values to their advantage. Which is a loosing game really -- these things fade over time. In your example China is creating new -- however sinister -- power structures on both sides. Physically with the contested islands and fishing vessels and also economically through investment and governme…

> Its a good point -- but I guess when I mean "colonialism" I mean western countries trying to exploit old power structures and values to their advantage. Which is a loosing game really -- these things fade over time.

Language doesn't however and large parts of Africa for example speak a European language as native language.

> In your example China is creating new -- however sinister -- power structures on both sides. Physically with the contested islands and fishing vessels and also economically through investment and government agreements.

Projects which are often debt traps and which usually hire non-local work forces.

> So it's true it's a kind of colonizing -- but it's a very different version from the past.

Not sure if that's very reassuring.

Re: U.S. Air Force says it conducted successful hypersonic weapon test

#125

Post by hungryforcodes »

LunaSea wrote: post #124
hungryforcodes wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a good point -- but I guess when I mean "colonialism" I mean western countries trying to exploit old power structures and values to their advantage. Which is a loosing game really -- these things fade over time. In your example China is creating new -- however sinister -- power structures on both sides. Physically with the contested islands and fishing vessels and also economically through investment and governme…

> Its a good point -- but I guess when I mean "colonialism" I mean western countries trying to exploit old power structures and values to their advantage. Which is a loosing game really -- these things fade over time. Language doesn't however and large parts of Africa for example speak a European language as native language. > In your example China is creating new -- however sinister -- power structures on both sides…

> Language doesn't however and large parts of Africa for example speak a European language as native language.

Not just Africa -- look at Latin America as an example. But that is indeed colonial structure from before.

> Projects which are often debt traps and which usually hire non-local work forces.

Though surely this proves my point -- debt is one of the best power structures in the world if you can get countries or people into it.

> Not sure if that's very reassuring.

No, it's not. True.

Re: U.S. Air Force says it conducted successful hypersonic weapon test

#126

Post by kurupt213 »

staunch wrote: post #89
kcb wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US missile defense system, which the US doesn't really even have Uh..Missile defense is a massive part of US Navy doctrine and is pretty much the primary purpose of every Destroyer, Cruiser, and soon Frigate in the Navy at this point. Without a doubt, the Aegis system and THAAD are the direct reason for these developments from China and Russia.

Sure, but that doctrine is old. And has it not been partially obsoleted by China's advances in missile technology? My understanding was that our fleets have sufficient defense for a limited attack but that a full scale missile attack by China would quickly overwhelm them.

The navy is close to adding lasers to its point defense array

Re: U.S. Air Force says it conducted successful hypersonic weapon test

#127

Post by kurupt213 »

gsibble wrote: post #65
kcb wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US missile defense system, which the US doesn't really even have Uh..Missile defense is a massive part of US Navy doctrine and is pretty much the primary purpose of every Destroyer, Cruiser, and soon Frigate in the Navy at this point. Without a doubt, the Aegis system and THAAD are the direct reason for these developments from China and Russia.

This. We have hundreds of Aegis boats sitting off our coasts waiting for it to rain MIRVs.

The aegis you are talking about are mainly dedicated to protecting CVNs

Re: U.S. Air Force says it conducted successful hypersonic weapon test

#128

Post by kurupt213 »

oneoff786 wrote: post #4

I believe most explosives detonate in the air anymore. Is there a speed threshold where the kinetic energy is enough to justify not doing that?

There are tank fired kinetic anti tank rounds. Depleted uranium darts are devastating.

But to answer your question, I believe the energy released by a kinetic impactor quadruples every time you increment a Mach number. So a kinetic impact at Mach 4 is 16x more energetic than a mach 2 impact.

Re: U.S. Air Force says it conducted successful hypersonic weapon test

#130

Post by FunnyBadger »

MR4D wrote: post #35
cersa8 wrote: post #10

How much of this is hype and boasting about military advances. According to this article hypersonic missiles are far from practical https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-physics-and-h...

I'd love to pick this article apart, but instead I'll just offer this: The Phoenix missile (which used to be carried by the F-14) is borderline hypersonic [0]. And it is shot at airplanes. Now imagine an Exocet-type missile but at a much higher speed. A fast missile does one very important thing - it reduces the time the defender has to react, and thereby increases the odds of the attack succeeding. Glide-paths, targ…

There's a downside to hypersonic - they are NOT agile especially in terminal guidance so they are primarily/only good for stationary targets. Going so fast carries this cost.

The hypersonic weapon win is when you need a short OODA loop in an engagement - perfect for that and we've see that happen already in Ukraine with them: the attack on Yavoriv - it was over and targets dead before ATC/Air Defense even realized there were incoming. That's a short OODA loop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/13/1086327654/russian-forces-esc...

A similar effect would occur with HGVs launched from SLBMs off the US coast - it's be over before anyone even raises the first alarm of incoming.

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