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Why did Heroku fail?

matt-rickard.com

121–130 of 161 posts

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#121
post #113

Are there any real alternatives to Heroku for small to medium sized projects? I am talking about projects with only one or two engineers. Those engineers likely focus on providing value for the customer by improving the actual product itself. Instead of taking care of deploying their project on AWS, which is quite complex, if you do not use it regularly. I am myself maintaining a custom built webshop/ERP system for a…

Migrated a small production Node app from Heroku to Render recently due to costs and that security debacle. Render is pretty much on the same level when it comes to convenience (push-to-deploy, etc.), but they're a bit more limited in what they support. They do have some features that Heroku doesn't have. The migration took me ~1 hour altogether.

- For languages, they support less stuff than Heroku (unless you're willing to do Docker yourself).

- For DBs, they can do Postgres or Redis on their end, other stuff is on you if you need it.

- Out-of-the-box metrics don't include basic stuff such as requests-per-sec or http status codes, so you do have to plug something external in for that.

+ HTTPS on custom domain using LetsEncrypt was a breeze and free.

+ They have "disks", which is a persistent filesystem for your app. Very useful if a normal FS is better than a DB for any of your things (image processing in my case).

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#122
Two reasons:

* expensive to scale

* developer limitations

This limited it to smaller scale projects, MVPs, proof of concepts where paying a little more for a certain range of developer productivity makes sense. Such is the case with rapid development platforms in general. When you grow you shift to wholesale-priced primitives that give you more control.

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. I like simpler. Most of my coworkers do not prefer simpler. They want to use tons of AWS services.

Resume-Based Development. My employees are the same. They want to tick all new tech boxes with our product, and they’re right, because they exit with 35% higher pay elsewhere (and I clearly don’t underpay them - this market seems to have no upward limit, and the only thing I’d like from them is taking ownership and responsibility, and it’s not happening).

Are you actually offering them ownership, i.e. large enough equity to have any say in corporate matters? Not just financial instruments that can lead to ownership after a years-long vesting schedule+exercising?

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#124
This title seems very premature, and the article itself doesn't justify it well. While there are reasons to not use Heroku (pricing, the security debacle) and be annoyed with them, I don't see any signs of them losing their position in their sector of the market yet. They are still the go-to if you're in the "small-size project, don't want hassle, set up everything for me please" space.

They might lose that position in the future due to many missteps, but at this point it's like asking "why did Microsoft fail?". It didn't. It might not be what it was, but it's still a pretty successful concern, and same goes for Heroku.

Having alternatives is very cool. I did migrate an app to Render, motivated by Heroku's recent security woes. But in the process of doing so, I realized that Heroku has accumulated a lot of plugins, conveniences etc. over the years. If Heroku dropped their prices to be a bit less egregious, I probably wouldn't bother moving.

It will take quite a while before anybody can match them on convenience, and eg. Render is definitely not there yet - it has the basics down and done right, and if the basics are enough for you, it'll work. But a lot of things you get out of the box one-click support for in Heroku will be a manual setup on the alternative PaaSes, with a community wiki article to guide you at best.

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#125
I worked at a few small shops that initially used Heroku.

The story in all of them was the same: Heroku is nice and simple to start with the free/lower plans, but gets too expensive as you grow a bit more.

Once we'd grown past the free/lower plans, we'd move on to somewhere else, that required a bit more work, but was substantially cheaper and way more flexible.

Also an issue was a reproducible environment for several devs. Using docker became super easy, but this didn't translate well into Heroku. We either needed to maintain buildpacks and dockerfiles in sync, or move to a platform where we ran docker. Not sure if this has changed since, but this was also a big reason to move elsewhere.

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#126
post #101

As someone that put a good portion of their working career into helping create Heroku alongside many others, several who contributed way more and had a larger impact, the notion that it failed is probably the first thing that should be up for debate. But because we seem to want to debate this on a weekly basis... Heroku made reproducible builds and deployments a thing at a time people were used to ssh'ing in and scp'…

I think pricing was a big issue with Heroku. You're not wrong that Heroku means you can get a lot out of a single employee. At the same time, I think that people can be "penny wise, pound foolish" and I think that people often have a sense of markup that feels unfair to them (even though they're often wildly off-base about what that markup is). Let's say that a product saves you 5 hours a week of developer time. If y…

[deleted]

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#127
Cloud has almost completely replaced the old datacenters however still the teams are spending a lot of time and money on managing it.

Heroku solved the problem very well for years but it's very costly and limiting at the same time.

Now it's time to replace Heroku with services that help you use the cloud providers which leads to substantial cost savings.

We're very soon launching https://www.utopiops.com which is an alternative for Heroku on AWS to address this particular issue.

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a bad idea to post this under your full name? Edit: Above content was expletive-laden sentence against anyone who dares insult Heroku

As the author, I disagree. It was an expletive-laden sentence against anyone who dares insult the hard working, dedicated, caring, compassionate, and very talented folks who work tirelessly behind the scenes to make Heroku a reality.

I mean, fair enough, if that is true then respect to you. But I just figured it might come off as tasteless and maybe not a good idea to represent Heroku with.

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it so bad? My experience with it was resoundingly positive, and saw lots of productivity gains with a great developer experience for teams that could build apps with strong guard rails in place. Now everyone and the kitchen sink „needs“ their own kubernetes cluster and operations teams struggle to build complex landing zones for the underlying cloud infrastructure so teams don’t shoot their own foot off all too e…

For context: I was at a company that was trying to roll out OpenStack internally (don't do this). Lots of stuff got thrown at the wall in an attempt to find a unified provisioner, nearly all of it terrible. Thankfully my role was that of a consumer. My recollections were that BOSH and CF exposed a ton more complexity than I wanted, and I don't remember there being a great story for deploying Rails apps. But all of th…

Agreed on the complexities of CloudFoundary, there’s a ton of work going on behind the scenes to make it work.

That said I think the Hashistack doesn’t address the PaaS component. There’s no cf push with HashiCorp tools.

It’s early days but maybe WayPoint will make that happen.

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#130
post #42

Depends what is meant by "failed." I worked there for a long time, in the earlier days. I also used it quite a bit after I left. From my point of view, as a mere customer of their mass-market product (a.k.a. cedar) with some insight into operation history, I think expensive or at least detailed investment in refurbishing or adjusting the mass-market product became, for whatever reason, difficult to (internally) justi…

The core product (not data) was so mired in tech debt, scaling challenges, and operational burden post-Cedar that we didn’t ship any major new features for ~18mo.

Finally shipping something major (the Europe region) was a massive effort with a lot of internal political struggles, as was performance dynos. That was why I left, because the writing was on the wall that an organization which had atrophied its ability & urgency to ship new product was not one that could continue to innovate in a meaningful way. Not to mention that headcount was already being starved at this point, so you couldn’t throw people at the problems.

I don’t think most people realize just how small the headcount working on the core platform product was, like 8-15 people for the whole time after acquisition.

There were a handful of additional big successes like private spaces, compliance certifications, metrics, etc driven by the few remaining people with the burning will to really push stuff forward. But eventually those people moved on, and by that point the company had already lost SFDC’s interest even though revenue growth and profitability had finally come around.

Forever thankful for the core group of amazing people like you that I was fortunate to spend a few years living the dream with. I’m glad I appreciated how special it was at the time!

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