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Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

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Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is in the definition of "unborn human". Many people don't believe that something without a brain is considered to be a living human, in the same sense that people who are braindead but with a beating heart are considered dead. The question is, at what point in the unfertilized egg -> fertilized egg -> clump of cells -> developing fetus -> viable infant spectrum does the being take on "humanity"? Personally…

I’ve always thought it was odd that people feel like it’s a binary condition. It’s fine if the fetus is undelivered, or if it can’t live outside the womb, or ___. I’m pro-choice, but my opinion is that “choice” is always at least a little evil (barring medical or other specific reasons). The longer it goes on, the more evil it gets. To that end I think it’s insane that some states are pushing to have abortion be lega…

I think the core of the issue comes down to viability. If a living thing needs to feed directly off of another living thing to survive, consuming their oxygen, nutrients, blood, etc. then it must be with the consent of the person being fed upon. Anything else is morally wrong. It's forcing someone to be host to another life against their will. To me that sets a pretty clear delineation that avoids the questions of whether or not that life has a heartbeat or a soul or its own thoughts. Until it can live without compromising its host those things don't matter.

I've always been very skeptical of the moral arguments from the pro-life crowd in general though, since I can't fathom a morality that says that every child conceived must be born, but after that event it's better for that child to die in the streets of exposure or sickness or hunger than for any tax money to be spent to help it grow up healthy housed and fed.

Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Correct: consensus is never a good justification on its own.

In this case we are talking about medical consensus across the west. Of course one can always argue about the inadequacy of medical consensus with your doctor, especially if your instincts tell you that you're about to happen upon intellectual gold.

Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

#123
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't most people hold that "two wrongs don't make a right"? In Hindu view abortion no matter the reason, except to save the mother's life, incurs strong negative karma.

Not sure what your comment has to do with a country that forbids the establishment of state religion.

I'm sharing perspective. I understand it is somewhat orthogonal

Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

#124
post #39

why is this flagged?

Either panic flagging or HN politics shining through.

A lot of political stuff is not suitable for the front-page but some things just are by virtue of either changing precedent or evoking deep questions.

Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

#125
post #39

why is this flagged?

Zero good discussion will happen here. That's why I flagged it.

I prefer to downvote the discussion since I'd estimate 80% of flagged but highly upvoted threads I've read in my time on hackernews have actually been ok.

Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

#126

States ought not ban medical procedures which are mainstream in major countries around the world on the basis of religious ideology, but unfortunately that's what's happening in states like Texas. This is a private matter between any individual and their doctor. Of course rich individuals will still be able to fly to countries like UK or Germany to receive mainstream medicine backed by mainstream science.

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Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

#127
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the dignity of rape victims forced to carry, deliver, and raise the children of their rapists?

Don't most people hold that "two wrongs don't make a right"? In Hindu view abortion no matter the reason, except to save the mother's life, incurs strong negative karma.

In fallout New Vegas stealing spoons gives you negative karma too.

It's not our decision to make as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

#128

Can someone explain in non-legal way why the court believes an individual has right to decide whether they can wear a mask or not but not whether they can have a medical procedure or not? What's the main difference between these two?

The American right is like a dog chasing cars. They got a lucky break with trump, lots of court appointments, now they get to catch that car finally.

The justification is basically immaterial given that any judicial philosophy effectively defines its own axioms.

Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always thought it was odd that people feel like it’s a binary condition. It’s fine if the fetus is undelivered, or if it can’t live outside the womb, or ___. I’m pro-choice, but my opinion is that “choice” is always at least a little evil (barring medical or other specific reasons). The longer it goes on, the more evil it gets. To that end I think it’s insane that some states are pushing to have abortion be lega…

I think the core of the issue comes down to viability. If a living thing needs to feed directly off of another living thing to survive, consuming their oxygen, nutrients, blood, etc. then it must be with the consent of the person being fed upon. Anything else is morally wrong. It's forcing someone to be host to another life against their will. To me that sets a pretty clear delineation that avoids the questions of wh…

Even that line is ambiguous. Some babies born at 22 weeks may survive, and many may not. With additional medical advances that timetable might move back to essentially 0 weeks. Without formula, babies would still absolutely need someone's nutrients to survive until 6 months.

The point is, while the law needs it to be binary, I don't think it's the same on moral grounds.

And I've heard your last point repeated plenty, but one should keep in mind while there's a significant overlap between the religious and the ultra fiscally conservative the Venn diagram isn't just one big circle.

Plenty of studies have found that religious people donate more to charities including nonreligious causes. There's also this: "A recent Barna Group survey found that 5 percent of practicing U.S. Christians – compared to 2 percent of all U.S. adults – have adopted children"

In my experience, if I found myself without a proverbial shirt on my back, I'd either go to a very religious person's house or someone that's quite (but not ultra) wealthy.

I'm a pro-choice atheist, for what it's worth.

Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is in the definition of "unborn human". Many people don't believe that something without a brain is considered to be a living human, in the same sense that people who are braindead but with a beating heart are considered dead. The question is, at what point in the unfertilized egg -> fertilized egg -> clump of cells -> developing fetus -> viable infant spectrum does the being take on "humanity"? Personally…

I’ve always thought it was odd that people feel like it’s a binary condition. It’s fine if the fetus is undelivered, or if it can’t live outside the womb, or ___. I’m pro-choice, but my opinion is that “choice” is always at least a little evil (barring medical or other specific reasons). The longer it goes on, the more evil it gets. To that end I think it’s insane that some states are pushing to have abortion be lega…

>To that end I think it’s insane that some states are pushing to have abortion be legal up until delivery. That’s 99.99% straight up killing a baby.

which states are those and you have links to discussion of bills or laws?

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