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Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

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Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#121

Post by hirvi74 »

porknubbins wrote: post #88
jeffheard wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find ADHD to be an "occasional" disorder. I feel very much like the author much of the time, but honestly I want it to continue to be researched as a disorder, because I want strategies and medications that are better than post-it notes and Adderall (and yes, I've tried lots and no, none of them are better for me than the occasional 5mg of Adderall). Most of the time, ADD works in my favor. But sometimes, (and NOT…

I have family members with similar issues. If you could could elaborate, what are the common situations when ADD works in your favor, and what are the times when you find you need your brain to work differently?

Not the GP, but times I find it helpful:

1. When high levels of energy or reaction are required e.g. sports and games where reaction speed and/or impulsivity is advantageous. I have been told on multiple occasions when I have been in emergency situations with others, that I do not tend to "Freeze up" like many others do.

2. High stress environments -- When it gets down to "Fire and Brimstone" time, I can develop a "hyperfocus" in which I can focus for an exceptionally and unhealthy long amount of time. However, too much of this without recharging, and I burnout. In fact, I think there is a joke that ADHD medical school students all become ER doctors.

3. Environments where divergent and abstract thinking is beneficial over convergent thinking. I often think I can come up with good ideas, but I personally find my mind falling short of being able implement them.

4. Social situations. I know this somewhat ironic, since we tend to have trouble listening and pay attention to conversations, but I seriously have done extremely well in any role dealing with customer service, talking to unfamiliar people, etc.. I imagine a part of this is possible due to my personality, but I have heard anecdotes from other people with ADHD having similar experiences.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#122

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

thenerdhead wrote: post #14

The part I hate most today is that if you relate to a video on ADHD/DID/Depression/Schizophrenia/etc, you will be fed the content until you convince yourself you have a “character trait”. That’s a serious problem with long term effects on society. I’m very sure I sit somewhere on the spectrum and have depressive disorder markers as well. But the last thing I want to do is to promote these traits. I am not proud of th…

Contrary to the depiction above it remains as far as I know exceptionally difficult to acquire adhd treating medication; they’re almost all controlled substances, heavily regulated and consumption tightly monitored.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#123

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

atian wrote: post #110
hirvi74 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The clinical diagnosis for a mental illness is that it impacts your life in a negative way. His attention deficit does not impact his life in a negative way, therefore it’s not a disorder. In my experience, I noticed most the negative impacts caused by the disorder were actually due to how I was treated by others for the negative impact my disorder caused in their lives (real or perceived).

> The DSM-5 defines a mental disorder as a syndrome that causes significant disturbance in behavior, emotion, and cognition. These disorders are also usually accompanied by significant distress that affects a person's work, school, and social relationships.

I'm not sure there's a contradiction here. Tourette's seems like a clear example of a disorder that both represents an obvious disturbance in behavior and matters primarily because of how others react.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#124

Post by gfody »

lghh wrote: post #114
gfody wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the trap in your example would be following the true scotsman fallacy into believing that you need your insulin to survive/thrive - which could be true in the case of diabetes, so not just like.

Considering people with ADHD have a much shorter lifespan, I would disagree. I encourage you to actually look into what medication for those with ADHD looks like before disparaging those who seek treatment.

not intending to disparage anyone living a normal life on an indefinite adderall prescription, more acknowledging the risk of mistaking its effects as unlocking your true potential rather than as relief from suffering, and then inadvertently shortening your life rather than extending it (hence the "trap" comment)

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#125

Post by hirvi74 »

TrackerFF wrote: post #7

I have ADHD (ADD), and was diagnosed after 30 - though I've greatly suffered from it since my teenage years. Sure, it is a big part of me, always has been, but I don't really make it part of my identity. I can't control it like a superpower, and there are serious consequences if you're not careful. I've noticed that in the ADHD community, there are some very vocal people that will wear the diagnosis with pride. I mea…

That is why I think my diagnosis was a double-edged sword. It helped give me a lot of answers and closure to past traumas, but with that knowledge I think it has somewhat held me back from things I have wanted to accomplish. I have used it as a reason as to why I couldn't do something, when the reality is that ADHD wasn't what held me back, but damn was it an easy scapegoat.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#126

Post by robocat »

Mandatum wrote: post #25
GavinMcG wrote: post #16

The author really does not do a great job, here, at least in saying something sensible as a response to DeBoer's piece. The core premise seems to be that: > I find it so very irritating that there is no term for my so-called ⸢attention deficit disorder⸣ that does not have the word “disorder” baked into it. I know what a disorder is, and this isn't one. But the author then argues against a strawman: > Why does any dev…

I think the main gripe sits with how we label it and the way we associate with the label. Yes, in a medical context we can use words like retard, but it's not acceptable to use this word in front of a patient because often the medical definition isn't known. To the same degree disorder may be an acceptable label by a clinician, but we need a different word for regular everyday use - because if I come into work and te…

> Yes, in a medical context we can use words like retard

Not applied to intelligence in the USA[2]. Personally I think retard is a fine word, so long as it is not applied to anyone with a low IQ, which most people wouldn’t do. Idiot, imbecile, and moron[1] are also fabulous words, which have lost their technical meaning from last century, because they were repurposed for “vernacular” use. Then again, I like using “special” or “speshul” too, so perhaps I am just bigoted.

[1] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/070674376300800... (1963)

[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20150627145120/http://www.wsj.co... (2010)

  The concern, by some, is that eventually new terms will become a new pejorative. " 'Intellectual disabilities' carries less baggage with it at this moment," said Douglas Biklen, dean of the School of Special Education at Syracuse University. "Twenty years from now, it can become the new epithet."

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#127

Post by hirvi74 »

chasd00 wrote: post #70
david38 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar. I don’t understand wearing it with pride. There is no pride in it. It’s not an accomplishment. When people do this, it looks like a pre-emotive cop-out. “I’m saying to everyone I have ADHD so that if something goes wrong, I have something to blame and can also blame you if you are the authority for not giving me a pass”.

I think you're right, over the last couple years i've noticed ADHD as becoming like a hobby mental disorder. Lot's of people claim it as like something to be proud of. If you really have ADHD then you know it's an absolute miserable experience and the right medication can change you're life. I wasn't properly diagnosed until my very early 30s and I bounced around different medicine until i found the right one and dos…

> I bounced around different medicine until i found the right one and dosage for me

How did you know you hit the mark when you found it?

I have been trying for the greater part of a decade, and I think there are only two possible explanations at this point:

1. I am one of the x% of people that medications do not work /as well/ for.

2. I have too high of expectations of the effects of the medications.

Doctors have been no help, and I do not mean that in an arrogant way. But when I ask, "how do I know if the medication and dosage is optimal?" They act like I am asking if P = NP.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#128

Post by escapedmoose »

GavinMcG wrote: post #16

The author really does not do a great job, here, at least in saying something sensible as a response to DeBoer's piece. The core premise seems to be that: > I find it so very irritating that there is no term for my so-called ⸢attention deficit disorder⸣ that does not have the word “disorder” baked into it. I know what a disorder is, and this isn't one. But the author then argues against a strawman: > Why does any dev…

I’ve often thought that I could be diagnosed with ADHD if I wanted, but I don’t feel the need to label myself with a “disorder” and its possible stigma for something that I feel helps me more than it hurts (now that I’ve learned strategies to work with it). Then again, it might have been easier/faster to find my coping strategies if I was diagnosed early. For these reasons, I think it would be helpful to drop the “disorder” bit culturally.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#129

Post by jrapdx3 »

symlinkk wrote: post #56
lghh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 30. I got diagnosed with ADHD a few months ago and I started treatment (adderall and lifestyle changes). Growing up, ADHD was my biggest enemy in life and I didn't even realize it. Once I began treatment, the change was almost overnight. I know I'm just one data point in a sea of data points, but I really just want to add that I'm on the other end of the parent comment and getting diagnosed, other than my marria…

I mean, anyone benefits from Adderall whether you have ADHD or not. How are you so sure you really have it?

> "I mean, anyone benefits from Adderall whether you have ADHD or not."

What benefits of Adderall are you referring to?

Drugs like Adderall can have distinct adverse effects, like cardiac arrythmias, increased blood pressure, jitteriness, insomnia, anxiety. And drug misuse/dependence is a major problem with stimulant-class agents.

So for sure it's not true that everyone benefits from Adderall. Widely abused on college campuses, among non-ADHD students it has a small positive effect on academic performance and at higher doses is a distinct negative. OTOH for people with ADHD the right treatment (Adderall or alternative) can be greatly beneficial. (That is, ADHD treatment allows recipients to perform closer to their non-ADHD peers.)

Finding out if a person has ADHD requires evaluation by a qualified behavioral health clinician. Often it's not an easy diagnosis to make for even the best clinicians. Anyway I'd concur that diagnosis and treatment should not be attempted as a DIY project. Collaborating with a trustworthy practitioner is by far the best option.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#130

Post by GavinMcG »

djur wrote: post #34
GavinMcG wrote: post #16

The author really does not do a great job, here, at least in saying something sensible as a response to DeBoer's piece. The core premise seems to be that: > I find it so very irritating that there is no term for my so-called ⸢attention deficit disorder⸣ that does not have the word “disorder” baked into it. I know what a disorder is, and this isn't one. But the author then argues against a strawman: > Why does any dev…

The "neurodiversity" viewpoint here is that what we call "ADHD" is part of the natural variation in how human brains work, and that it's a category error to think of it as a malfunction to be repaired, but rather as a difference to be accommodated. That accommodation may or may not be via medication and therapy, but that shouldn't necessarily mean that the underlying neurological state is a diseased one. A good analo…

That viewpoint makes the same strawman argument:

> is part of the natural variation in how human brains work, and ... it's a category error to think of it as a malfunction to be repaired

No! No one is saying that everyone at one end of the spectrum has a disorder. It is specifically not a category error because the term "disorder" is not applied based on the variability, but rather based on whether the variation meaningfully disrupts the individual's life.

That's why the only change the author needs to make here is to say he has an attention deficit rather than saying he has a disorder.

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