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Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

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Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#121

Post by realusername »

drusepth wrote: post #100
hamburglar wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Require them to give the same dire warnings about apps from their own store, or remove them both.

The difference is that the store includes any amount of heuristic tests meant to scan for malicious activity, and directly installing an APK has no such safety net. You can argue that the testing Google does is bad or minimal, but it seems like the ideal solution would then be "improve the testing". I'd also prefer to see such tests moved on-device so they could apply to APKs from any source, but I don't know how tec…

> You can argue that the testing Google does is bad or minimal, but it seems like the ideal solution would then be "improve the testing"

Yes why would we believe Google on the APK scanning? There's zero transparency on this subject, zero code shared and the store is visibly full of scams anyways.

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#122

Post by IshKebab »

drusepth wrote: post #100
hamburglar wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Require them to give the same dire warnings about apps from their own store, or remove them both.

The difference is that the store includes any amount of heuristic tests meant to scan for malicious activity, and directly installing an APK has no such safety net. You can argue that the testing Google does is bad or minimal, but it seems like the ideal solution would then be "improve the testing". I'd also prefer to see such tests moved on-device so they could apply to APKs from any source, but I don't know how tec…

There's absolutely no reason you couldn't provide that automated testing for non-store APKs too.

Edit: Sorry, didn't read to the end of your comment. Yeah doing it on-device would be good but I'd guess there's some stuff they want to keep secret.

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#123

Post by smokey_circles »

I'm torn on this one.

I agreed with epic when they made this argument with Apple but that's because the App Store was the only way around.

Epic could just distribute an APK they build themselves. They just can't use the play store. Simple link on a website. Or the app. Doesn't the desktop launcher auto update?

Android is a lot more open so it's just weird to cry foul here but I also understand it does have an effect on their visibility.

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#124

Post by parkingrift »

jedimastert wrote: post #83
parkingrift wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is an absolutely true statement that distinction is an active choice by Fortnite to monopolize their platform.

Do other people allowed to sell skins on the store? Is side-loading an official feature elsewhere? I feel like if side-loading or community skins aren't actually supported then it's an important distinction

Neither side-loading nor community skins are supported, and that is my point. Epic prefers complete monopoly control over their platform.

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#125

Post by [deleted] »

drusepth wrote: post #100
hamburglar wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Require them to give the same dire warnings about apps from their own store, or remove them both.

The difference is that the store includes any amount of heuristic tests meant to scan for malicious activity, and directly installing an APK has no such safety net. You can argue that the testing Google does is bad or minimal, but it seems like the ideal solution would then be "improve the testing". I'd also prefer to see such tests moved on-device so they could apply to APKs from any source, but I don't know how tec…

[deleted]

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#126

Post by anonymousab »

akvadrako wrote: post #63
Mk2000 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But those "alternatives app stores" can never do the things Play Store can, like automatic installing/updating apps without user needing to click "Install" for each one. (which gets quite annoying) Google could've made it possible but did not, that's monopoly.

They can with new versions of Android: https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-alternative-app-st...

What percentage of Android phones out there will be able to install and run Android 12 without needing to be hacked?

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#127

Post by spywaregorilla »

parkingrift wrote: post #124
jedimastert wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do other people allowed to sell skins on the store? Is side-loading an official feature elsewhere? I feel like if side-loading or community skins aren't actually supported then it's an important distinction

Neither side-loading nor community skins are supported, and that is my point. Epic prefers complete monopoly control over their platform.

It's not a platform, it's a store. The term monopoly does not apply. It's not a clever gotcha, it's just you not understanding the difference.

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#128

Post by spywaregorilla »

CharlesW wrote: post #95
spywaregorilla wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not ok with sweet heart deals conceptually. Because they're bullshit

Then I have good news, in that this isn't some special "sweetheart deal". 10% is the standard rev share for music streaming apps that participate in Google's "Play Media Experience Program".

That's still a sweetheart deal, and also looks like it's 5% better than the standard play media deal https://play.google.com/console/about/programs/mediaprogram/

To qualify you must

- App primarily offering video, audio, or books in which users pay to consume content - Over 100,000 monthly active installs on Google Play - High quality user experience with strong Google Play rating - Developer account in good standing - Integration of specific Google platforms and APIs based on type of media content - Additional requirements apply depending on the type of media content

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#129

Post by heleninboodler »

JoshTko wrote: post #15
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google ensures that they are they are frightened away with scary warnings.

this makes sense. Users who don't know what they are doing should be dissuaded. Those that do know what they are doing will not be dissuaded. Given the potential security consequences the warning approach is entirely appropriate.

...and is also appropriate for apps from the Play store. Google certainly isn't guaranteeing otherwise. If malware slips through, they will take no responsibility.

They currently have it both ways: 3rd party app stores get scary warnings front and center, whereas Play store gets the scary warnings and disclaimers of responsibility buried in TOS.

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#130

Post by RC_ITR »

jollybean wrote: post #96
RC_ITR wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>which Google certainly has You’re conflating some ideas here. A marketplace owner always has “dominant market power” over the market they own. That’s the nature of marketplace, the owner gets to set certain rules like the types of payments accepted at the marketplace, because that is literally the job of a marketplace. Google also has dominant market share, since their App Store is the best for android, but that’s l…

"Google also has dominant market share, since their App Store is the best for android, " No, it's preloaded on every device, that's why. If some other App Store, 'App Store B' were preloaded on every device, and App Store were not, then that 'App Store B' would ultimately be 'that much better'. That said - I don't agree with Epic here. If you want your merchandise in Walmart, it's fair that Walmart does the selling a…

> If some other App Store, 'App Store B' were preloaded on every device, and App Store were not, then that 'App Store B' would ultimately be 'that much better'.

Did you enjoy your Fire phone, because that's exactly what you're describing. Somehow people decided they did not like it...

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