Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships • Hacker News Board

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#121

Post by nradov » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 3:54 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #100

nradov wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if we had more licensed physicians we would still have a large number of staff per doctor. A radiologist might be able to administer contrast to a patient, check their vital signs, transport them to the MRI machine, and run the scan but that's not a good use of a radiologist's time. Better to have nurses, orderlies, and technicians do all that so the radiologist can focus on reading the images.

Yes, it's obvious that some level of support staff are a good idea. Now make an argument that the current arrangement is more optimal than the one we might end up with if there were more doctors.

That part is obvious. Regardless of the number of physicians, they will always be the most expensive resources. Thus any procedure which can safely and legally be performed by less expensive resources, should be.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#122

Post by imwillofficial » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 3:58 PM UTC

"Ashes to ashes, dust unto dust, it may not run, but shine it must, it may not work, but it will not rust."

An overheard Chief's response to the question, "why do we have to clean all the time?"

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#123

Post by imwillofficial » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

kshacker wrote: post #118

umvi wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick googling reveals JAG = Judge Advocate General aka a military lawyer

If you have seen JAG or NCIS (tv shows), you probably know some of these and with NCIS being a top (broadcast) show for a few years, it is quite likely a lot of (dare I say older) people have heard of these

I was Navy for 5 years and a navy contractor for 10 and I’ve never seen URL in my life. (Besides, you know, the web meaning)

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#124

Post by indymike » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 4:09 PM UTC

Former Navy (nuclear propulsion) here. That by no means makes me an expert, by I will share a couple of thoughts:

Ships rust. Officers don't chip paint and paint. Technical enlisted and NCOs don't chip paint and paint either. Junior, and especially unrated (not trained in a vocational area yet) enlisted do. This looks like a simple case of being undermanned, and/or having "too many chiefs and not enough braves". Reality is that it probably has to do with pay rates for Enlisted. Fedex pays $36-$42k/yer for package handlers. An E-1 makes $21k/year base. With all benefits, you might be at parity with Fedex, but you give up a lot of freedom.

I'll commit a little naval heresy here but surface ships are probably nearing obsolescence if not already obsolete. They are slow, easy to find, and hypersonics, drones, cruise missiles, aircraft and submarines are just incredibly lethal, and perfect point defense doesn't exist. The sinking of the Moskva is really just a sign of the times. The carrier battle group may fare better because of the range of air cover and subsurface escorts, but we're in an era of weapons that can kill a carrier with a single hit.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#125

Post by master_crab » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 4:10 PM UTC

Silly question:

Does it matter that they have visible rust?

If the performance is the same and it’s just a veneer with no effect on ability, who gives a damn?

I had a CO who once told me: “I trust the guy who’s got mud on his boots vs the one whose shoes are always spit shined.”

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#126

Post by Sebb767 » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

kshacker wrote: post #118

umvi wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick googling reveals JAG = Judge Advocate General aka a military lawyer

If you have seen JAG or NCIS (tv shows), you probably know some of these and with NCIS being a top (broadcast) show for a few years, it is quite likely a lot of (dare I say older) people have heard of these

Only ~30% of people on HN are from the US and I'd assume that the number of non-US people who watched NCIS in the original language are comparatively low.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#127

Post by Tao332 » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

1970-01-01 wrote: post #25

Rust-free? How over budget should we go trying to make an all-aluminum and carbon fiber carrier? Is fiberglass ok or are we planning on making submarines too?

Pykrete doesn't rust!

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#128

Post by Tao332 » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

throwaway290 wrote: post #61

What happened to appearing weak when you're strong, and strong when you're weak? (Unless this is a submarine targeting enemy researchers?) Making warships look aesthetically pleasing strikes me as a little silly. That said, safety and mental health sounds like vital issues to address.

I'm not in a navy and I think the rusty ships look more intimidating. Though I guess I could be abus-- I mean, disciplined into thinking unmade beds, unshined shoes, and a spot of rust must mean you're a total pushover.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#129

Post by yhoneycomb » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 4:26 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #107

xattt wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Medical and JAG, are VA benefits (ie paid long-term care) worth the loss in income over the longer term?

You will never know. That is the great thing about “benefits”, the recipient has no control or knowledge. The employer, or politicians, 5, 10, 20 years from now can cut funding and reduce access from MDs to NP/PA, or only cover certain meds, or require excessive prior authorizations to dissuade using the healthcare.

Exactly this. The VA already is hiring as many midlevels (NP/PA) as possible so that they don't have to hire MDs. You wouldn't believe how low the bar is to become an NP. PAs receive substantially better training, but at the end of the day they are still midlevels.

Worse still, many NP programs are now giving out "doctorates" of nursing practice so that NPs can introduce themselves to the patient as "Dr." Smith.

In short, the VA is willing to gamble with your life if it means saving a few bucks. It's pretty harrowing.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#130

Post by jwithington » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 4:31 PM UTC

Boritanian wrote: post #110

jwithington wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Navy pays officers very generously across all fields, EXCEPT medicine and JAG. URL JOs will take a pay cut for the first several years (at least) after leaving for the civilian sector. I never, ever heard a URL peer get out because of financial reasons. FWIW, BAH (pay for housing that is tax-free) is $4000 for an O-6 in Point Loma v. $2777 in Offut, NE. Seems to be aggressive adjustment, no? Enlisted pay might be…

>JAG >URL JOs >BAH if only i knew what any of those words mean. Why haven't people learned to describe their abbreviation unless they already pre-established that the audience will definitely know them?

Because I’m replying to someone who would know what those acronyms are.

The ELI5 is that the Navy pays officers who do the core ship/flying activities quite well. Compared to their civilian peers, Navy lawyers, doctors, and cyber people don’t get paid well.

The posted article is about rust on ships. A ships management team is paid well. Low pay is unlikely to be the cause of dissatisfaction.

To be clear, “paid well” is not “paid well” as measured by FAANG tech salaries. A submarine officer with 8 years of experience is making something equivalent to $200Ks if I am to believe the calculators that adjust for tax advantages of military pay, discounted value of future retirement cash flows, etc.