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Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

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Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#121

Post by et-al »

leereeves wrote: post #114
dragonwriter wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Were, say, the actions taken against Alan Turing acceptable simply because they were legal at the time Kind of an odd example to use to defend that “protected classes make people think other discrimination is acceptable” argument, since protected classes didn't exist then and people thought that discrimination was perfectly acceptable. > I must say, I'm surprised to see you defending prejudice. I must say, I’m surp…

> I must say, I’m surprised you think I am defending prejudice. You are literally arguing in favor of the idea that "it's ok to discriminate against anyone who isn't protected". Prejudice is still prejudice even if the particular characteristic on which that prejudice is based isn't protected (yet...). > Kind of an odd example to use to defend ... I'm not using that example to defend my statement, I'm using it to dis…

Laws are delayed reflections of our collective morality (or more cynically, the morality of the elites). Here, the concept of protected groups are to keep companies in check.

I'm curious about your proposal for curbing discrimination.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#122

Post by erosenbe0 »

noirbot wrote: post #116
dijonman2 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I worry that the professionalism of the resume is a signal mostly for wealth and social status What?

It's just generally easier to do more things well/professionally when you're well off and have the time to work on it or hire someone to do it. It's similar to the issues with standardized testing in schools. If your parents are wealthy and able to get you better test prep or tutoring, you'll do better on the test, and likely be actually more academically successful aside from it. It doesn't mean that one should tota…

If not mentioned or on the resume, explicitly asking whether a candidate has contributed to OSS or has done side projects outside of work is extremely inappropriate. The answer may be, "No, I attend temple nightly after going to occupational therapy for my disability and taking care of my children." Then you will have to document this for HR because you done gone messed up.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#123

Post by WalterBright »

Jensson wrote: post #118
WalterBright wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tall people tend to be more relaxed in leadership roles, because they feel less of a need to prove themselves.

Maybe they actually have more need to prove themselves since short peoples leadership gets challenged much more often? Why else would they feel greater need to prove themselves? It isn't like short peoples brains are wired differently.

Tall and/or attractive people have lifelong advantages. There's nothing fair or just about it. We're each dealt a different set of cards, and it's up to us to take advantage of the good cards and make lemonade from the bad ones as best we can.

I.e. don't confuse having an advantage or disadvantage with destiny. We make our own destinies by the choices we make.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#124

Post by mrshadowgoose »

burnished wrote: post #120
mrshadowgoose wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been amazed at the hypocrisy of all of this. A portion of attractiveness is culture-invariant, and quantifiable based on measurable factors such as facial symmetry. Study after study have demonstrated that humans innately treat attractive individuals better than others. Yet we obsess over skin colour and genitalia, without a single peep about the physical appearance discrimination that most humans take pa…

Because that starts to verge on telling you who to find fuckable instead of who to treat as a peer. Plus the level of baggage is completely different. I'm surprised at your surprise.

I think you've mistakenly scoped my point to solely "the dating game". Physical discrimination in that scope if of course, completely understandable, and IMO completely okay.

However, it's been shown repeatedly that "fuckability" results in better treatment in most other aspects of one's life, including things like job opportunities, career progression, and general treatment in non-romantic social interactions. All of these are scopes that modern society hyperfocuses on when race or gender are involved. That's the hypocritical aspect of it.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#126

Post by thaumasiotes »

rajin444 wrote: post #73
thaumasiotes wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and they persist to this day among the black populations. Well, light skin preference for females persists to this day in African populations and every other population. It was also present -- and documented even in Africa -- before any European presence existed, so it's strange to say that Europeans imported it. And darker skin is usually preferred for men.

I'm not sure how to account for darker skin _may_ be less attractive to humans on a genetic level. It's a question science can't answer, so I don't know how we could control for it. i.e, it could be the truth that the lighter your skin is the more attractive you are. How do we rule that out?

>> darker skin is usually preferred for men.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#127

Post by prawn »

mcv wrote: post #45
edent wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is extremely unusual for the UK. I know some European countries make a photo mandatory - but I've never seen it in the UK. I've reviewed a huge number of CVs - at SME and large companies. I think the only time I've ever seen a photo in that context was an auto-generated thing from LinkedIn.

As far as I know, it's very unusual in Netherland. I've certainly never included a photo on a CV (though I do have one on LinkedIn, where a lot of my work comes from). When I was part of the hiring process, I did notice that all Indian/TCS CVs I got to see had photos, though.

I've had a few Dutch interns join me in Australia. One applicant who wasn't successful was a young woman whose CV included a few personal photos, one of which was a bit of a sultry pose straddling a chair. Not indecent, but certainly not work oriented.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#128

Post by tubalcain »

maxk42 wrote: post #34

I'm going to buck the trend and say that candidates with attractive photos are quite possibly actually more competent. When hiring, I consider the content of a resume and not its aesthetics. But the people who go the extra mile to add polish: An attractive, well-formatted resume; being well-dressed for an interview; and even adding polish to a photo - are likely candidates who express the added attention to detail I'…

The polish you speak of is not the relevant factor in determining attractiveness. Height, facial features and non-obesity are the characteristics described, and with the exception of obesity, are largely immutable.

In other words, a professionally done photo of a goblin-like human will be viewed more negatively than a selfie of an attractive person.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#129

Post by tubalcain »

justanother wrote: post #33
altdataseller wrote: post #4

Does being attractive really help you in getting hired in engineering positions? I would understand client-facing/sales jobs, but unsure it would help in engineering roles

"Attractive" is a wee bit subjective here, but I can tell you my career took off after I spent a small fortune on my teeth and upgraded my mic and webcam setup to near-studio-grade. If it's a coincidence, it's the most incredible case of coincidental curve-fitting that I've ever personally witnessed. It by no means guarantees you'll get the job, demonstration of competence still matters, but it sure helps break ties.

Attractiveness is not subjective, as facial features deemed attractive are universally accepted across both time periods and cultures. Tallness for men is always seen as better than shortness.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#130

Post by WalterBright »

jackblemming wrote: post #102
WalterBright wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tall people tend to be more relaxed in leadership roles, because they feel less of a need to prove themselves.

White people tend to be more relaxed in leadership roles, because they feel less of a need to prove themselves. Do you see how insane this sounds?

You might be interested in the biography of General Benjamin Davis, a great American hero.
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