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Why companies move off Heroku (besides the cost)

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Re: Why companies move off Heroku (besides the cost)

#121

We're big Heroku customers; despite that, I largely agree with the points in this article and there's a voice in the back of my head asking every few months "is this worth it?" Whenever I research the new crop of Heroku clones (the one being hawked here, and others) the pitch is always "it's just like Heroku but you can run it in your own cloud". It's mind-boggling to me that none of the clones understands that I DON…

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Re: Why companies move off Heroku (besides the cost)

#122

We're big Heroku customers; despite that, I largely agree with the points in this article and there's a voice in the back of my head asking every few months "is this worth it?" Whenever I research the new crop of Heroku clones (the one being hawked here, and others) the pitch is always "it's just like Heroku but you can run it in your own cloud". It's mind-boggling to me that none of the clones understands that I DON…

AWS’s ECS Fargate with Aurora Serverless and AWS CA certificates is close.

Indeed. I wrote about recreating what I wanted from Heroku within ECS Fargate. There was a lot of initial configuration but very, very low maintenance work.

https://statico.medium.com/recreating-herokus-push-to-deploy...

Re: Why companies move off Heroku (besides the cost)

#123

Warning: There are a couple people in this thread mentioning products that they're investors in. I won't call them out expressly, but I think people should be direct about their incentive alignments. It's disingenuous and borders on astroturfing IMO. Background: Founder of Railway.app here. There's a lot of these companies popping up that offer a "Heroku replacement", and once you dive in, you realize you have to pay…

I was looking at your site earlier due to link up the page, and I have a question about the pricing:

What exactly does 0.1 of a vCPU equate to?

Re: Why companies move off Heroku (besides the cost)

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* It was automated. Now it requires someone to pay attention and do it. You need to check if CI passed, and pull, and be sure you pulled the version that passed CI (maybe someone pushed since then). * Review apps, the only remaining heroku "killer feature", do not work at all. The fact that this has been broken for 2 weeks tells you everything thing you need to know about the state of their code base, and the resourc…

Tip for your first point: make the CI server push to heroku.

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Re: Why companies move off Heroku (besides the cost)

#126

A good article, except for one big thing: this is not an end user, rather a direct competitor. Public articles that criticize competitors always run me the wrong way. I haven't used Heroku in a few years, but it has served (using the Hobby plan) as a really low cost way to host web apps. I have been reading through the comments on alternative providers, and even though I haven't used it, GCP's Cloud Deploy looks inte…

Dosen’t criticising competitors increase competition? “We taste better than x”, “we have higher quality than x”, “we’re like x but cheaper?”

I don’t like this either. I think maybe people are more used to this in the US, but I personally think that if you can’t be objective you need to be more humble in your communication.

… of course Coke can trash-talk Pepsi and vice-versa… but if I’m making a technical assessment of competing products or software platforms I get a bad feeling of anyone using those sales tactics.

Re: Why companies move off Heroku (besides the cost)

#127
post #79

As someone that was there at Heroku after the acquisition, I don't think you can state that since the acquisition it's been consistently downhill. There isn't much debate that things have stagnated in the last 5-7 years which is a longer story on why probably. Some examples of innovation that happened and were launched after the acquisition: buildpacks (at the time of acquisition Heroku was still Ruby only), Heroku P…

I think the most interesting part of this is the PaaS disaggregation. Heroku built an exceptionally good Postgres service. They could not have done that with multiple DBs. Even their redis is pretty meh. People like us (Fly.io) will end up either building very mediocre DB offerings or collaborating with DB companies (like yours: https://www.crunchydata.com/products/crunchy-bridge/ ) to ship stuff that's substantially…

Oh thanks for the props Kurt. The idea of PaaS disaggregation is definitely something I've been pondering for a bit and think I'm on the same page. At Heroku we were very opinionated about only Postgres for the longest time. We were fortunate to build-out the add-on ecosystem to give you more options, and explicitly did not want to run them ourselves for the longest time. I'm not sure how lucky we were vs. good, but surely spreading ourselves out to be platform + Postgres + everything else would not have resulted in the same experience.

It turns out running a PaaS is a lot of work. Running a DBaaS is also a lot of work. If you've ever dealt with database corruption, it's not the thing you can just hand wave and do the same way across all databases, you need deep expertise in it, that or you say it's not my problem and offer a poor customer experience. Personally feels like we can do better in service quality as platform/database providers so doing one thing really well feels like a good direction to head for a bit (at least that's heavily what we're betting on at Crunchy Data by just focusing deeply and purely on Postgres).

Re: Why companies move off Heroku (besides the cost)

#129
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the most interesting part of this is the PaaS disaggregation. Heroku built an exceptionally good Postgres service. They could not have done that with multiple DBs. Even their redis is pretty meh. People like us (Fly.io) will end up either building very mediocre DB offerings or collaborating with DB companies (like yours: https://www.crunchydata.com/products/crunchy-bridge/ ) to ship stuff that's substantially…

I'm curious about what "substantially better than RDS" means. RDS has been good enough for me for quite a while. Does it only matter once you get to a certain scale?

Craig here from Crunchy the company he's referring to. Not sure what he has in mind, but having built a lot of Heroku Postgres in the early days I definitely have thoughts on what can make a database great. There is a big gap between most developers and what you need to know to efficiently run Postgres. Without tipping too much of our hand, we're focused deeply on building an amazing developer experience for Postgres. Some things we're thinking about are how we can actively detect N+1 queries (common in almost every ORM, Rails, Django, etc) and notify you about them. We already have some big differences like shipping with connection pooling built-in so you can easily scale to 10,000s of connections, really any production Postgres setup should be running with pgbouncer, where as on a lot of providers it's either not an option or you're left to your own devices.

Good enough may be absolutely fine for a lot of people, but no lock-in to a single cloud, better developer tooling, proactive alerts and recommendations, quality support all feel like an opportunity to be better.

Kurt may have entirely other things in mind, and would be all ears if there is low hanging fruit in terms of feature or experience we can do to make Postgres even better for folks.

Re: Why companies move off Heroku (besides the cost)

#130
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first few years after the Salesforce acquisition were incredible - for quite a while I thought of Heroku as one of the best examples of an acquisiton where the product improved after the release. Sad to see that momentum eventually fade away.

Agreed - not least recruiting Matz which I thought was a huge coup

At the time we would joke a bit that acquisitions would get some new very high priced domain. We even looked at getting the .app TLD for all Heroku apps to get their own .app domain. We ended up with our acquisition "gift" as Matz, which was great to see it support Ruby and the community given how Heroku couldn't have become Heroku without the Ruby and Rails community.
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