Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

staceyoniot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–127 of 127 posts

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#121

Post by ungamedplayer »

mynameisash wrote: post #61
car_analogy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason these companies keep faltering is that they push cloud-based and/or locked in product ecosystems. There is a bigger reason - what problem do they solve? How much money and/or time will using their products save me? The one area where there might be worthwhile savings is smart thermostats, but could 90% of those savings be accomplished with an offline thermostat with a timer?

I played with HomeAssistant for a while, and I kind of liked tinkering around with things, but it was still a huge pain in the ass, and I have no delusions that it was saving me money or time. For someone going into this with the expectation of tinkering, it's fine. For a commercial venture, I don't see current 'smart home' products/services as very viable. I've already switched my light bulbs to LEDs; how much am I…

I have learned that almost any effort is far too much for people to go through.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#122

Post by cudgy »

brimble wrote: post #64
Nextgrid wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is DIY considered bad? I mean, aren't existing "dumb" electricals also DIY in the sense that you have to install it, wire it in, etc? I have a "DIY" setup in my current property with Shelly modules behind light switches and everything connected to Home Assistant. It's been rock-solid for a year now and the occasional maintenance I do (updates, etc) is more out of a hobby than anything (I could air-gap the entire…

There's a big difference between wiring up a new outlet that'll likely last for decades without further effort and will very likely require an identical or near-identical process to replace even 30 years from now, and care and feeding of fully-local "smart home" networks & interfaces. Most plumbing or electrical work I do will last decades. If I move, the same skills will transfer perfectly to the plumbing and wiring…

In what area of the world are you finding cheap plumbers? Little kids can hook up smart devices, but I’d never let a little kid do my plumbing.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#123

Post by atoav »

Nextgrid wrote: post #42
brimble wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a big missing piece for the whole thing is the Just Works factor. You're either stuck with cloud garbage (some of which does, kinda, Just Work, until it doesn't), or a bunch of DIY. Meanwhile, with traditional dumb fixtures, switches, outlets, et c., I don't even pay attention to which brand I'm buying. They all work the same, and you hook them all up the same way, then forget about them until/unless they phy…

Why is DIY considered bad? I mean, aren't existing "dumb" electricals also DIY in the sense that you have to install it, wire it in, etc? I have a "DIY" setup in my current property with Shelly modules behind light switches and everything connected to Home Assistant. It's been rock-solid for a year now and the occasional maintenance I do (updates, etc) is more out of a hobby than anything (I could air-gap the entire…

DIY is not bad (speaking as someone who does a lot of DIY). But it costs time. Not everybody has time.

If you work with devices that adhere to some sort of common standard things are usually much easier, less gotchas, less weird hacks that depend on specific versions or intricates of some commercial product etc.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#124

Post by bradgessler »

After setting up over 100 IoT devices in my home, I’m convinced this industry needs to be regulated if it wants any shot at succeeding.

Here’s what needs to be required:

1. An IoT device should be capable of functioning without any sort of “smart” features. For example, a remote controlled lamp should have a physical switch on it that allows it to operate like a dumb lamp.

2. A device should be capable of integrating with the rest of the home network without depending on the public internet or external services. This means said lamp can be turned on and off by a smart switch or phone that’s in the same LAN.

3. Smart devices must be accessible without registering an account with the device manufacturer. This is one of the most egregious parts about IoT today—most vendors require an email and password to login and setup or control the device, which is absurd on so many levels with respect to privacy and when the company goes bust like Insteon.

These 3 things would put an end to most of the IoT shenanigans we see happening today.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#126

Post by dan_sss »

gregmac wrote: post #57
bradstewart wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insteon devices function perfectly well without the cloud. I have several dozen of their light switches and motion sensors. The quality local communications (wireless that doesn't use 2.4GHz and interfere with WiFi + powerline) was the entire reason I went with them. The cloud-connected hub to enable remote control was a bolt-on, and by far the least reliable part of their ecosystem. So while I totally agree that sma…

> The cloud-connected hub to enable remote control was a bolt-on, and by far the least reliable part of their ecosystem. Not only that, but least useful? I never understood the use case for why you'd want remote lighting control. Better: set up automations. * Outside lights go on when it's dark, until ~11pm. * Outside lights also turn on with motion * Some inside lights turn on when it gets dark IF no lights have bee…

>>> * Some inside lights turn on when it gets dark IF no lights have been manually changed in the past few hours

>>> * Inside lights turn off later in the night if they were turned on automatically AND haven't been adjusted manually since

Out of curiosity, how exactly do you accomplish this? How do you make sure IF no lights have been manually changed or if the lights were turned on automatically? Do you use iOS ShortCuts/ Automations? How do you persist states in them then?

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#127

Post by bradstewart »

dan_sss wrote: post #126
gregmac wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cloud-connected hub to enable remote control was a bolt-on, and by far the least reliable part of their ecosystem. Not only that, but least useful? I never understood the use case for why you'd want remote lighting control. Better: set up automations. * Outside lights go on when it's dark, until ~11pm. * Outside lights also turn on with motion * Some inside lights turn on when it gets dark IF no lights have bee…

>>> * Some inside lights turn on when it gets dark IF no lights have been manually changed in the past few hours >>> * Inside lights turn off later in the night if they were turned on automatically AND haven't been adjusted manually since Out of curiosity, how exactly do you accomplish this? How do you make sure IF no lights have been manually changed or if the lights were turned on automatically? Do you use iOS Shor…

I do this with HomeAssistant. You can specify conditions before taking action, which can include "is this thing still in the state it was when the last automation ran".
Post reply on HN