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The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

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Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#121

Post by sp332 »

mikece wrote: post #10
nimbius wrote: post #3

tell ya what i really wanna see from pinephone: AGPS lockdown. Currently ive learned from HN there are numerous 3GPP protocols that provide direct, clandestine monitoring of the GPS location of the phone. the feature lives unchallenged in the firmware, so if you can give me a phone that cannot report its GPS data to the carrier without my knowledge, id be ever grateful.

Does the carrier sell this information? There are many/most apps that I don't allow to get location data and that's because, in my judgement, they don't need it and I don't trust them not to sell it: I can opt out. But if the carriers are actively gathering my location information and are selling it without giving me a way to opt out then perhaps I need to think about my phone as something I turn off most of the time…

This is from 2019 but I've lost track of what happened since then. https://www.wired.com/story/carriers-sell-location-data-thir...

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#122

Post by MomoXenosaga »

zwieback wrote: post #30

I like the idea of a more open phone a lot but dispute the "Smartphones are shit" premise. I think modern smart phones are an unbelievably awesome value. Battery, display, wireless and processing power have advanced at such an unbelievable rate that we have something in our pockets that far exceeds predictions of 20, 30, 100 years ago. The problem is that we don't want to pay what it really costs to have such a great…

Normal people use smartphones and if there is anything nerds hate it is normal people hence smartphones are shit.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#123

Post by mardifoufs »

usrn wrote: post #97
zwieback wrote: post #30

I like the idea of a more open phone a lot but dispute the "Smartphones are shit" premise. I think modern smart phones are an unbelievably awesome value. Battery, display, wireless and processing power have advanced at such an unbelievable rate that we have something in our pockets that far exceeds predictions of 20, 30, 100 years ago. The problem is that we don't want to pay what it really costs to have such a great…

As someone who had a few pre-smartphone PDAs: Smartphones absolutely are high powered shit. On paper they're amazing but the ecosystem limits you to scrolling instagram and only a handfull of accepted IMs (iOS struggles with XMPP and IRC for example, something even my hacked DS could do fine with 4MB of ram and a 60Mhz ARM9.) Just editing fucking textfiles and copying it back to a normal PC (that isn't a mac) is a re…

I can do everything you said isn't possible without even modifying anything on my smartphone. Also, comparing PDAs to modern smartphone is just... inaccurate at best. PDAs were essentially devices that were looking for a purpose, with limited uses. And even for those uses they were very mediocre.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#124

Post by nameisname »

hprotagonist wrote: post #117

> Don't smartphones... kind of suck? How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years? No? Twice, and both were upgrades for new hardware features, not required replacement due to parts failure or loss of software support.

You're not in some minority, that's a new phone every three years and is in line with the market. Also, who are you buying from that is supporting their software for that long? I think I've gotten maybe 2 years of updates if in lucky with anyone but Google. So you've admitted you're upgrading because of software features. This is the entire issue. I still play triple A games at 1440p 144hz on a 10 year old PC with a 2700k and see no reason to upgrade because of software. Infact, my computer doesn't support windows 11 and that's a blessing imo. My laptop is a t440p which is almost 10 years old and I've never needed to upgrade because of software. I run Windows 10 fine and arch even better. I can play some games and stream the rest. The planned obsolescence of cell phones is not about hardware, it's about software and advertising. Nobody should need to have a new phone every two years.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#125

Post by usrn »

IanCal wrote: post #120
usrn wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an Android. Every update made Termux less and less capable (IIRC exec is very complex or impossible in a recent one.) Now I have a Pinephone running a normal X11 DE and I don't have to tolerate an ounce of stupidity. Sure there are legitimate good faith defects in the software but nothing is intentionally broken just for the sake of it. ssh just works (the phone shipped with it preinstalled) vim just works scp…

On the other hand, my android phone works reliably for ... I don't know weeks? Months? I only restart for major update. My Ubuntu laptop after a straight install didn't turn off properly, my Ubuntu desktop regularly has chrome crash and fails to wake up the screen. I've had so many issues with basic Linux setups that I absolutely do not want that on my phone. I don't want a browser that's described as just "usable".…

I actually don't share your experience. My Linux machines are all more reliable than the best smartphones I've had. Flagship Android phones have been the worst in my experience, most can't make it a week without crashing, not to mention the awful battery life. Maybe it's because I know to be picky about PC hardware and don't run things like Chrome.

>I don't want a browser that's described as just "usable".

I have to wonder what exactly you do want then, maybe a parade?

I get it though. You don't want the responsibility of configuring your device. That's fine, most people don't. This next thing you said really gets me though:

> I've never been in a position where trying to fix the underlying OS was required nor could I picture it being something worth time I'd have to trade away from my family.

You've been conditioned to feel helpless here. You've been told you can't fix things so you accept that they're broken and don't think about it. That's one reaction and in this situation it's probably healthier. For me it's like living in a house with crooked picture frames and the police showing up if you try to straiten them. It's a little upsetting for people to act like that's reasonable or ok.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#126

Post by mardifoufs »

usrn wrote: post #105
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just editing fucking textfiles and copying it back to a normal PC (that isn't a mac) is a real bitch. Especially if you don't have an internet connection. It's almost as bad as a ti84+ honestly. If you're on Android, I suggest looking at F-Droid; there exist decent text editors and file managers, and failing all else Termux manages to drag a decent amount of sanity in.

I had an Android. Every update made Termux less and less capable (IIRC exec is very complex or impossible in a recent one.) Now I have a Pinephone running a normal X11 DE and I don't have to tolerate an ounce of stupidity. Sure there are legitimate good faith defects in the software but nothing is intentionally broken just for the sake of it. ssh just works (the phone shipped with it preinstalled) vim just works scp…

Maybe people do not want to use vim on their phones? This is like complaining that your laptop can't run mainframe applications. I guess if you are extremely attached to "your good old way" of doing things, sure, but that's such a limited way to judge platforms. It just amount to not wanting anything to change in your workflow... ever which is okay but not a very good reason to say that "there's no reason for any of the mobile stuff and there arguably never was" when the immense majority of people do not share the same habits.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#127

Post by hrbf »

zaik wrote: post #38
hrbf wrote: post #16

Just like the Linux desktop, alternative smartphones will forever remain a tiny niche market for highly technical people. Mainstream adoption can and will never happen given the current state of hardware design and manufacturing.

If I get the usability of today's Linux desktops I'm completely fine with that. I don't care if my setup is widespread or not if it works for me.

Fair enough. You do you. Freedom to choose can be a good thing. It won’t scale though. You need one unifying, well-made, default experience for that.

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#128

Post by girvo »

While I love this write up, this quote caught my eye:

> This is not something I'd recommend unless you're truly dedicated to open source and want to be early to the first generation of open source telephony.

The OpenMoko was the first generation of open source telephony :)

I’d wager we’re in the second now. I could almost argue the Nokia N9 was the progenitor of that too, but that’s a much longer bow to draw haha

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#129

Post by usrn »

mardifoufs wrote: post #126
usrn wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an Android. Every update made Termux less and less capable (IIRC exec is very complex or impossible in a recent one.) Now I have a Pinephone running a normal X11 DE and I don't have to tolerate an ounce of stupidity. Sure there are legitimate good faith defects in the software but nothing is intentionally broken just for the sake of it. ssh just works (the phone shipped with it preinstalled) vim just works scp…

Maybe people do not want to use vim on their phones? This is like complaining that your laptop can't run mainframe applications. I guess if you are extremely attached to "your good old way" of doing things, sure, but that's such a limited way to judge platforms. It just amount to not wanting anything to change in your workflow... ever which is okay but not a very good reason to say that "there's no reason for any of…

Sure but then you need a replacement that can do equivalent things (so for vim, notepad would be enough, but iOS doesn't even come with a text editor. You have notes but that only edits files in your mailbox. You can install an app but the app is stuck in its own sandbox etc.) I get the "you should be flexible" but being completely unable to do entire classes of tasks requires more than being flexible about your workflow.

Most importantly: all these problems are entirely artificial. There's no actual limitation that creates them, just smartphone vendors declaring "things must be painful."

Re: The case for LineageOS and the PinePhone

#130

Post by hprotagonist »

nameisname wrote: post #124
hprotagonist wrote: post #117

> Don't smartphones... kind of suck? How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years? No? Twice, and both were upgrades for new hardware features, not required replacement due to parts failure or loss of software support.

You're not in some minority, that's a new phone every three years and is in line with the market. Also, who are you buying from that is supporting their software for that long? I think I've gotten maybe 2 years of updates if in lucky with anyone but Google. So you've admitted you're upgrading because of software features. This is the entire issue. I still play triple A games at 1440p 144hz on a 10 year old PC with a…

> Also, who are you buying from that is supporting their software for that long?

Apple; my iphone 6S (released 2015) runs iOS 15 just fine. https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/supported-models-iphe...

7+ years of support certainly permits a phone every 5 for a nicer camera...

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