Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Virginia police routinely use secret GPS pings to track people’s cell phones

insidenova.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 271 posts

Re: Virginia police routinely use secret GPS pings to track people’s cell phones

#121

Post by cryptonector »

randombits0 wrote: post #28
colpabar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I think we need to put as much blame on the carriers providing these capabilities to anyone , let alone the police. That the police are publicly funded and are buying this data with my money is also a huge issue to me, but if I had to pick one thing to change, I’d make selling this data illegal. That way, no one could have it.

That’s what the warrant requirement is all about, that’s where it’s broken. This technique should only be used for major felonies. On the flip side, if you want to commit major felonies, don’t take your phone!

> if you want to commit major felonies

That's not how it works. Sometimes the police suspect people who are innocent, and they work hard to get them on technicalities if need be, and meanwhile, the risk of inadvertently and unintentionally committing obscure crimes is substantially higher than zero, so...

Re: Virginia police routinely use secret GPS pings to track people’s cell phones

#122

Post by ghaff »

salawat wrote: post #117
ghaff wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember what the exact number was (maybe 75mph) but I had a rental for a business trip out west somewhere--maybe Arizona--and it turned out the car had a governor set to whatever the number was--which at the time was presumably significantly over a lot of speed limits but was right at the speed limit where I was driving. It was very annoying as the car would suddenly drop the throttle and slow down. Only tim…

There is a gentleman's agreement between many manufacturers of street legal cars to produce vehicles that will not accelerate to faster than 120-130mph unless some special conditions or limits are met. Been that way for at least a decade.

Speeds within many highway speed limits (like 75mph) are not 120-130mph however.

Re: Virginia police routinely use secret GPS pings to track people’s cell phones

#123

Post by jfk13 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #96
oneplane wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when is a speed limit not a rule/law but a 'feeling' for a 'natural' speed? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. That essentially just escalates as everyones 'naturally' speeds up as a herd and then the whole point of having rules is moot.

Your common sense is wrong here. If you replace speed limits with "go a safe speed" then people don't go faster indefinitely, they'll find a speed that depends on road design. It doesn't escalate, and it's only notably faster than the speed limit when something has gone wrong with the road planning.

You're ignoring the fact that many people's perception of what is "a safe speed" is not at all reliable. (Compare: what percentage of people would claim to be better-than-average drivers? https://www.smithlawco.com/blog/2017/december/do-most-driver...)

We have speed limits because trusting people to "go a safe speed" doesn't work, in general.

Re: Virginia police routinely use secret GPS pings to track people’s cell phones

#124

Post by sterlind »

UncleMeat wrote: post #92
alistairSH wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how about sticking to the speed limit? Because the speed limit in much of the US is below the “natural” speed of that roadway. We have highways where 80+mph is the norm, but the posted limited can be anywhere from 55-70mph (I-95 along the east coast). Driving the speed limit actually becomes dangerous. At this point, speed enforcement becomes a hit-or-miss affair, where you’re at the mercy of the police officer. Bett…

> Driving the speed limit actually becomes dangerous. I've lived in VA for decades and have driven all over the state. There is no highway where driving the speed limit is actually dangerous and there certainly isn't a highway where the norm is 20 over.

in Atlanta there's a stretch of interstate at 50mph, and the traffic flows at 70+mph. driving the posted limit is dangerous, and possibly even illegal (delaying traffic.)

Re: Virginia police routinely use secret GPS pings to track people’s cell phones

#125

Post by spaethnl »

woodruffw wrote: post #116
spaethnl wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are typically two kinds of roads these speeds are reached in the US: 1. Expressways, where pedestrians and cyclists are not allowed. They are walled off with specific entrances and exits. 2. Country highways, where pedestrians and cyclists are nearly unheard of, and are typically very easy to spot from a distance and adjust accordingly. There is a third area where these speeds are sometimes reached in urban are…

It's not uncommon to see people go 20 over on country roads (including mountain roads) in Virginia. That means 55 in a 35, or 60 in a 40. Those roads don't have great visibility, and I've had more than a couple of unnecessarily close calls because of recklessly speeding drivers. Edit: The upstream thread even has an article where the author describes doing 93 on a 55 backroad in VA and subsequently getting arrested[1…

Sure, but that isn't what we're talking about.

The comment that this thread branched off of is about the relative difference in danger of 10mph with a modern vehicle, not 20, 30, or 40mph. I don't think I agree with that user's overall point, but I also didn't think your response to it was particularly on point either.

I think our transportation infrastructure needs a massive overhaul to be more pedestrian, bike, and even motor-vehicle friendly, but I think speeds limits are such a poor answer to that problem that arguing about +10mph is merely a distraction.

Re: Virginia police routinely use secret GPS pings to track people’s cell phones

#126

Post by cycomanic »

cryptonector wrote: post #115
logifail wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Virginia as a whole has some pretty absurdly pro police laws, at least re: driving (Full disclosure: have never driven in the USA), but without wishing to sound like a know-all, how about sticking to the speed limit? I've been dinged exactly twice for speeding since getting my licence almost exactly 30 years ago this month. No points in either case. It's not hard, honest. My wife might disagree, but her licence, he…

American highways for decades now have been designed for very high speeds, often 100mph or more, but the speed limits are set much much lower than that. Perhaps you are in Europe, where speed limits are generally just the natural speed for the roads they're posted on, and the roads are designed for natural speeds that are appropriate for their uses. Lucky you, if so. Here in the U.S., speed limits are set to give pol…

> Perhaps you are in Europe, where speed limits are generally just the natural speed for the roads they're posted on, and the roads are designed for natural speeds that are appropriate for their uses. Lucky you, if so.

What are you talking about? With the exception of Germany all countries in Europe have maximum speed limits and I have no idea what you mean by natural speeds. Sweden which has highways that are in better condition than pretty much all US roads I've driven on has a maximum speed of 110 km/h (as has Australia btw) , Spain has 120 km/h, France 130 km/h. All lower than the US 85 miles/h.

Re: Virginia police routinely use secret GPS pings to track people’s cell phones

#127

Post by woodruffw »

eganist wrote: post #10
hammock wrote: post #6

Chesterfield County, Va. can be generally understood as one of the most, if not the most, pro-cop (densely populated) counties in the whole country. You don’t want to be arrested there Edit: not sure the reason for the downvotes, this fact is useful context and first-hand

Virginia as a whole has some pretty absurdly pro police laws, at least re: driving. The lesser of either 20 over the speed limit or any speed over ~80~ 85 miles an hour (thanks jmisavage) in Virginia is a misdemeanor, and at least one auto journalist has been jailed in Virginia. https://jalopnik.com/never-speed-in-virginia-lessons-from-my... It's also the only state to prohibit radar detectors.

I am someone who's extraordinarily sympathetic to journalists. But I don't think there's really any excuse for going 93 miles an hour on a country road marked for 55, as this author did.

Should he have been sent to jail for it? I don't think so. But it's remarkable how acceptable that behavior seems to be.

Re: Virginia police routinely use secret GPS pings to track people’s cell phones

#128

Post by netizen-936824 »

woodruffw wrote: post #90
hammock wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cops get more benefit of the doubt there than anyplace I’ve seen. And the cops, prosecutors and judges are in close coordination.

Just for maximum pedantry: it's normal for cops and prosecutors to coordinate (it's their job). Americans frequently treat state attorneys as if they're not fundamentally "in law enforcement," which is absolutely not the case. But I do agree with you about Virginia (from personal experience as well), and there should be a firewall between the police and actual trial judges.

Should judges be working with enforcement? Aren't there meant to be checks and balances?

Re: Virginia police routinely use secret GPS pings to track people’s cell phones

#129

Post by Dylan16807 »

jfk13 wrote: post #123
Dylan16807 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your common sense is wrong here. If you replace speed limits with "go a safe speed" then people don't go faster indefinitely, they'll find a speed that depends on road design. It doesn't escalate, and it's only notably faster than the speed limit when something has gone wrong with the road planning.

You're ignoring the fact that many people's perception of what is "a safe speed" is not at all reliable. (Compare: what percentage of people would claim to be better-than-average drivers? https://www.smithlawco.com/blog/2017/december/do-most-driver... ) We have speed limits because trusting people to "go a safe speed" doesn't work, in general.

Objectively, the group settles into a particular speed.

It's based on both safety and perceived safety, and it's not perfect, but it works out pretty well.

If the road is designed properly it's the top few percentile that you need to restrain, not the masses.

If you make a super wide straight shot of asphalt down a residential neighborhood, and people go too fast, that's the road designer's fault.

Re: Virginia police routinely use secret GPS pings to track people’s cell phones

#130

Post by [deleted] »

netizen-936824 wrote: post #128
woodruffw wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for maximum pedantry: it's normal for cops and prosecutors to coordinate (it's their job). Americans frequently treat state attorneys as if they're not fundamentally "in law enforcement," which is absolutely not the case. But I do agree with you about Virginia (from personal experience as well), and there should be a firewall between the police and actual trial judges.

Should judges be working with enforcement? Aren't there meant to be checks and balances?

[deleted]
Post reply on HN