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Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

politics.salon.com

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Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#121

Post by jcromartie »

kgtm wrote: post #78
rgbrgb wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably you could just ask your kids, or ask around at a college campus, or google it, or check on craigslist (people sell weed on craigslist these days), or ask at a headshop. Also, I'm quite confident that someone you know, even in an extremely sober social circle would know someone who would now.

I won't go into details about why each solution you present is not optimal, because I have a better proposal. Make LSD and other drugs of similar effect legal. Have the government regulate the distribution. Put an exorbitant price tag on them and disallow buying-in-bulk. Make me sign that I am wholly responsible for what happens to me by using them (even though nothing adverse as lung cancer will, I'm sure). Give me…

Why an exorbitant price tag? That will just fuel the black market that is in turn fueling the drug wars (read: with bullets and machetes and thousands of dead people) in Central America.

How about a reasonable price tag?

Or how about blanket legalization of cultivation, possession, and use? I can get a tube of spores for "magic mushrooms" for about $10 and grow my own indefinitely. But for some reason this activity (the growing and using part) is currently highly illegal.

I don't need a license to brew beer and drink it myself or give it away. Why should it be any different for plants and fungi?

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#122

Post by mannicken »

There might be some truth to Steve Jobs' view of LSD.

There have been studies that link psychedelics and aesthetics: http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health/story/2011-09-29/Magic-m...

I'd say LSD is like steroids for artists/designers/creative people or Adderall/Ritalin for students. Sure it won't make you creative overnight but it will reaaalllly help, and it's kind of dangerous. Most of the danger comes from illegality, of course :)

It is just a lot easier to come up with new ideas when your mind is open and sketchbook seems to be a direct extension of your brain, where you can just 'think' ideas with pencil.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#123

Post by rwmj »

elemenohpee wrote: post #107
rwmj wrote: post #8

I've taken LSD and 'shrooms a few times, and while I can understand what Jobs is saying, I think he was wrong. I had mystical experiences where I thought I understood that the whole world was connected together, and I was connected to the world, and other deep insights. I think this was just brain-addled delusion, not any insight into how things really are. That said, I fully support these things being legal, and (fo…

> I had mystical experiences where I thought I understood that the whole world was connected together, and I was connected to the world, and other deep insights. I think this was just brain-addled delusion, not any insight into how things really are. Hasn't this view been borne out by modern science? The fact that we are made of the same stuff as the dirt and the stars, and that there really is no dividing line betwe…

It's delusional in the same way that someone else telling me they had a religious experience is delusional.

I cannot prove [to myself!] after the fact that what I experienced under the drug was real. I obviously believed it at the moment I was under the effect of the drug, but afterwards I couldn't recall exactly why I believed that. In other words, there was no way to prove or explain it. So it's delusional -- an event is supposed to have happened but there is no proof of it.

There's simply no reason for me (now) to believe that what I experienced under the drug was real.

(As I said above, I still think LSD should be legal so we can scientifically look at reducing harms from people taking it)

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#124

Post by [deleted] »

nate_meurer wrote: post #119
felipemnoa wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greed is not illegal and as long as you do not abuse it just like with alcohol, driving, etc. etc. You should be OK. You could say similar things about some drugs, some argue, unfortunately they are illegal, they can land you in jail, and they support a drug cartel. >>"Better safe than sorry" is a platitude that can be used against any activity that entails some degree of risk. But I wasn't using it for anything. I w…

Yes, I can see that you picked this specific case to apply your platitude. Feel free to pick any number of other cases as well, completely at random if you wish, and your argument will propel them all with equal force.

[deleted]

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#125

Post by jjschnei »

derleth wrote: post #103
VMG wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

downvoted for irrational mysticism

Why is Hacker News so closed-mindedly pro-psychedelic? Do none of you think there is even a debate to be had here?

I think that HN is just open-minded. Psychedelics aren't for everyone, but everyone should have the option.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#126

Post by akamaka »

Since this article brings up an LSD anecdote from Steve Jobs, I'll add one from someone who is not famous at all, but which I think is no less useful.

A few weeks ago, I spotted two men fighting outside of a bar. The older man got violently pushed to the ground, and I went up to him to see if he was okay, and ask him what had happened.

He rambled on for a while, telling me that dropping acid in the early 1970s was one of the most important experiences he had ever had. It put him in touch with a higher dimension, and he would sometimes receive messages from there. The reason people beat him up sometimes, he explained, was that he spoke the truth, directly as God sent it to him, and that people didn't like hearing the truth.

Make up your own mind about LSD, but try to take into account more than one data point!

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#127

Post by [deleted] »

nate_meurer wrote: post #117
felipemnoa wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>A greater percentage of water drinks drown than marijuana/lsd/mushroom users die from marijuana/etc usage Is a fallacy or a false argument in the sense that you can say that about pretty much anything. -Eat just meat for a couple of weeks and it will kill you -Eat just pasta and it will make you sick -cars kill more people than X -etc. etc. He is not providing a real argument. Is like me telling you that aluminum c…

Grandparent: What is the reason for the anti-drug stance of many people at HN? You: Because drugs can hurt you. Better safe than sorry! drivebyacct2: That's a useless assertion that can be easily (and more appropriately) applied to many other activities seen as legit in a civil society. You: But you can say what you said about anything. See the irony here?

[deleted]

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#128

Post by kpennell »

bluedanieru wrote: post #48
VMG wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

downvoted for irrational mysticism

It's not particularly irrational or mystic. That experience he describes is quite common for people who use mushrooms a few times. What is the difference between you and a chair? What makes your brain so special, and why is it so important that it continue to exist? Why shouldn't a stick held in your hand be considered part of your body (in fact, one of the big differences between humans and most animals is that, unc…

Excellently said, thank you.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#129

Post by elemenohpee »

rwmj wrote: post #123
elemenohpee wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had mystical experiences where I thought I understood that the whole world was connected together, and I was connected to the world, and other deep insights. I think this was just brain-addled delusion, not any insight into how things really are. Hasn't this view been borne out by modern science? The fact that we are made of the same stuff as the dirt and the stars, and that there really is no dividing line betwe…

It's delusional in the same way that someone else telling me they had a religious experience is delusional. I cannot prove [to myself!] after the fact that what I experienced under the drug was real. I obviously believed it at the moment I was under the effect of the drug, but afterwards I couldn't recall exactly why I believed that. In other words, there was no way to prove or explain it. So it's delusional -- an ev…

Well when you're going at it from that angle, how can you prove to yourself that anything you experience is real? There are centuries of thought surrounding epistemology, I don't see why problems of how and to what degree we know what we know should apply to drug induced experiences and not regular experiences.

But then again, I don't know what you experienced. The most profound insights I had make perfect sense to me now, and they mesh with current scientific understanding as far as I can tell, so I have no reason to doubt them.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#130

Post by olefoo »

rgbrgb wrote: post #75
kgtm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about how easy it would be for an out-of-college, non-US person, with no social circle experimenting with such substances get hold of, say, LSD. Part of the non-legalization problem is that if forces you to go down dark alleys which are certainly not compatible with the all-is-good, geek experimentation philosophy. If forces potential users to associate with the hardcore underground, with all the risks that…

Probably you could just ask your kids, or ask around at a college campus, or google it, or check on craigslist (people sell weed on craigslist these days), or ask at a headshop. Also, I'm quite confident that someone you know, even in an extremely sober social circle would know someone who would now.

> people sell weed on craigslist these days

Very dumb people. That's almost sure to earn you a visit from the least harried law enforcement group in your local area.

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