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Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

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Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#121

Post by manmal »

nine_k wrote: post #90
lmpdev wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SAP are more known for ERP than CRM They're absolutely colossal in size My ex-girlfiend's father is an engineer there in Baden-Wurttemberg - I'd characterise them as closer to something like Oracle rather than Salesforce

They are so colossal that switching to SAP usually means reworking company's processes to match SAP's, not the other way around.

I read recently that not using SAP - or heavily customizing it - in markets where it’s prevalent can break big(ish) companies. Apparently the interface to other companies (from which to buy or sell) is so much easier to setup when all have the same system, that using any other system is prohibitive. If you need to interface with hundreds of enterprises that all implement standard SAP, you become the expensive outsider if you don’t. Integration projects can take years and then fail, with nothing to show for - which can threaten a company’s existence. Better to use standard SAP „off the shelf“ and do as little customization as possible.

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#122

Post by blowski »

joenathanone wrote: post #114
Agentlien wrote: post #110

This reminds me of the story one of my university teachers used to introduce himself. He was the most brilliant educator I've had, really passionate about making sure people could actually follow and so humble. The course was called "Digital and Computer Technology" and it was a first year course teaching you to build a CPU starting from logic gates and then program it with assembly. He said that when he had recently…

'Those who can, do; those who can't, teach' -George Bernard Shaw

TIL that quote is _actually_ from George Bernard Shaw. https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/176500.html

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#123

Post by Agentlien »

Saser wrote: post #113
Agentlien wrote: post #110

This reminds me of the story one of my university teachers used to introduce himself. He was the most brilliant educator I've had, really passionate about making sure people could actually follow and so humble. The course was called "Digital and Computer Technology" and it was a first year course teaching you to build a CPU starting from logic gates and then program it with assembly. He said that when he had recently…

Rolf Snedsböl? :-) Agreed that he was one of the best educators (if not _the_ best) I had

Yes, Rolf Snedsböl!

I absolutely loved his classes. I bumped into him a few years ago when I was holding a recruitment thing for Ghost Games and it happened to be just after his lecture. I told him how much I enjoyed his courses.

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#124

Post by vages »

supernova87a wrote: post #108

While having algorithms and computers dictating every aspect of train movements, crew scheduling, resource allocation is efficient and in a sense optimal, I think there's something compelling to be said about having a system that can survive with human-rememberable patterns when such an optimizer fails. That it can fall back on (or have at the core) simple patterns that people can still operate without algorithmic in…

I work within the train system of a European country (with ticketing, so I’m on the top and not the bottom of things). From my experience with station and onboard crew, I am very certain that the schedules and patterns are still very much human rememberable, at least collectively: People have to show up for work, drive the train and many other things.

My guess is that the failure is related to signalling or some other knowledge that exists “between” the trains (and brains). Having systems that can negotiate right of way is necessary to increase the number of trains and the speed of each individual train beyond their pre-computer-era limits.

Having all trains stop for one day is probably a judgment call to lower the overall duration: Having all trains stop for a day is a pain in the neck, but you know when you’re done. If you could not wait, you could probably have (quite) a few trains run without problems. However, you would have to work for a very long time to get all the trains back to where they were to resume the regular time table. This would be the preferable option during a time of crisis.

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#125

Post by reilly3000 »

I think it’s worth mentioning that while the IT system couldn’t coordinate the trains safely, it was a management decision to stop them from running. Coordination can happen myriad ways. For example, trains could operate according to their normal schedule, and if one needed to deviate they could radio in, and an operator could let downstream trains know to proceed accordingly. Maybe simple cell-phone GPS pings could suffice. Perhaps the state of the system was in such chaos that such orchestration wasn’t possible with the staff on hand. That said, a truly resilient system should have multiple coordination channels to fall back upon.

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#127

Post by mastermedo »

aetherson wrote: post #58
xiphias2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in Amsterdam inside Netherlands after waiting a long line. At the same time Hungarians in Romania could vote by mail and the government was using Fidesz to collect the votes and threw out votes of the opposition. The soft dictatorship works very well, Hungary will go even more down in the future. I'll probably leave Hungary before Hungary leaves EU/NATO and gets into a war.

Who exactly would Hungary get into a war with? It borders Slovakia (EU member), Austria (EU member), Croatia (EU member), Serbia, Romania (EU member), Ukraine, and Poland (EU member). Is it your contention that it's going to invade the EU? Or Serbia? Or Ukraine? Or is Hungary going to use its awesome force projection capabilities to get into a war with a country that it doesn't border?

“Beat them with sarcasm, not arguments” — James Looney

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#128

Post by vanviegen »

dt3ft wrote: post #120

There is a swiss company based in Zürich that develops this kind of software. I believe it was a c#, wpf application, the last time I spoke with them. The schedules that their software produces is calculated and set for several years ahead. That baffled me! The tracks and infrastructure is booked up so far ahead! I think they mentioned that the german railway uses their software, nut only the sbb.

From what I understand, the failing system is a bit different, in that its primary purpose is to deal with outages and other unexpected events.

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#129

Post by innocenat »

Aeolun wrote: post #102
Tepix wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds unrealistic given the size of the problem.

They did it before the whole thing was automated. Surely they can do it again.

The automation allowed running more trains than ever before using less personnel than ever before.

You want the train company to keep 2x-3x personnel on hand just for days like this? Not to mentioned transition time.

Re: Due to failure in the IT system, it is not possible to run any trains today

#130

Post by CaptainZapp »

Reminds me of when the entire Swiss train network shut down in 2005[0]

This was, however, not due to a computer glitch, but problems in SBB's electrical grid, which lead to overload of some of the lines and then to a complete shutdown of the entire grid.

Warnings were displayed on control consoles, but were drowned in 1000s of other meaningless warnings (there's a lesson for an UI designer here).

I was in the ICE from Basel to Zurich at the time and after fuming for a few minutes I figured: "What can you do?" and moved to the bar wagon. There we had something of an impromptu party until there was no more power for the cash register and they stopped sales.

In the end it was a (relatively) funny adventure for most and a huge embarrassment for SBB. I don't think they like to be reminded of that faithful day.

[0] https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-train-network-shuts-down/...

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