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In Praise of Memorization

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Re: In Praise of Memorization

#121

Post by AlanYx »

jacobolus wrote: post #115
AlanYx wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The biggest differentiator between the students who scale up quickly and those who scale up a bit more slowly is their aptitude for memorization.... >But the students who struggle all struggle for the same reason: they cannot remember at the moment of writing their paper the basic facts that give context or even give meaning to the documents they are to analyze. It sounds like what you're describing isn't about stud…

It substantially comes down to the amount of language practice those students have had over the years, starting from listening to large amounts of varied material (from conversations/books read aloud) as young children, and then from reading a wide variety of material. The kids who read, and read, and read (especially those who have someone discuss with them the meaning and structure of what they are reading, hearing…

>the ability to “memorize” (i.e. learn)

I don't disagree with any of what you're saying. But piecing little bits and pieces of things together is seen as a higher-level cognitive trait in most of the cognitive literature, quite distinct as a learning concept from memorization.

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#122

Post by saulrh »

This analysis is only relevant for neurotypicals. There are ways that your brain can work that flip this whole thing on its head, and if you have one of those brains you need to do exactly the opposite of what this article recommends: You can only remember the details by understanding the context. I do not understand that Oman is powerful because it controls the Strait of Hormuz; I do not understand that Russia wants Crimea because it has Mediterranean access. Rather, it's only possible for me to remember that Crimea has Mediterranean access by understanding that Russia wants Mediterranean access and wants Crimea and using those facts to infer the relevant geography. I am able to remember that Oman controls the Strait of Hormuz because I understand that Oman is powerful and that the Persian Gulf is important and I can work backwards from there. So be careful about the directionality of causation when you're looking at observations like "The most understanding-capable people I know know a ton of details" - they may be able to know details because they understand rather than being able to understand because they know details.

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#123

Post by Wowfunhappy »

quartesixte wrote: post #15

Disclaimer: Anecdata. I volunteer tutor high school kids in my local community. Particularly math and history. The biggest differentiator between the students who scale up quickly and those who scale up a bit more slowly is their aptitude for memorization. Recent history curricula and pedagogy in HS has placed an emphasis on “analysis” and “critical thinking.” But the students who struggle all struggle for the same r…

I was having a conversation/debate with a friend this past weekend along similar lines:

I have an extreme amount of trouble memorizing basic facts, and so I can't recall a lot of historical dates. Things I didn't know which bothered her included the year America signed the declaration of independence and the year we entered World War I.

But, I knew how long World War I lasted, and that it coincided with the Spanish flu, and proceeded an economic boom period which ended in the Great Depression and then World War II. I'm quite good at remembering stories, and so I knew the context of these events—just not the specific year they happened.

Which I think is fine. Context is what matters.

My friend said that for her, knowing the date is what lets her recall the context. Because of what she memorized as a child, she's able to form a timeline of history in her head, and see when things happened and how they coincide. And I will admit that I sometimes have trouble forming a similar timeline, and it's a handicap. But I mostly manage; I have a limited number of hours in my life and I focus my energy where it makes the most sense.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that people are different. It may be that most students are like my friend and the children you tutor (which is something I should keep in mind, as I'm actually training to become an elementary school teacher). But it's not necessarily true for everyone. I resent the fact that when I was in high school, I had test questions which asked "what year did Christopher Columbus arrive in America". I studied for hours trying to commit these facts to memory, and I still got the questions wrong. But if the test had asked "how did Christopher Columbus's arrival in America affect the European economy", I could have answered easily.

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#124

Post by hackerfromthefu »

Mezzie wrote: post #84
SamBam wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that "learning memorization" is really the process of learning to do the work to memorize, through explicit strategies like spaced repetition. I don't think people become better at "effortless" memorization. Instead they learn what it is they need to do if they want to remember something.

It's possible to get to the point where you can become better at effortless memorization, but that takes a LOT of work. I studied 6 languages in high school and undergrad, and by the time I was in my senior year (taking Arabic + Chinese concurrently + over a decade of cumulative language classes) I remembered pretty much everything and reviewing for things like formulae/terms in other classes wasn't necessary. It's j…

Hi I'm interested in this, can you talk more about the process and stages you went through?

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#125

Post by hackerfromthefu »

turboponyy wrote: post #5

I've never regarded memorization highly. Whenever we had to learn the times tables or the squares at school, I would just work them out in my head instead of memorizing them. Of course, I still ended up learning the squares and the times tables by heart, but not because I actively memorized them, but because I just used them so much that I couldn't help but remember them eventually. I'm of the opinion that this leads…

If you don't memorize anything, what is your name, and where do you live?

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#126

Post by jkaptur »

somenameforme wrote: post #96
quartesixte wrote: post #15

Disclaimer: Anecdata. I volunteer tutor high school kids in my local community. Particularly math and history. The biggest differentiator between the students who scale up quickly and those who scale up a bit more slowly is their aptitude for memorization. Recent history curricula and pedagogy in HS has placed an emphasis on “analysis” and “critical thinking.” But the students who struggle all struggle for the same r…

I'd claim (perhaps not even contrary to what you're saying) that memorization and competent analysis/understanding are really two sides of the same coin. "Here is some long sentence that doesn't really say anything and which you've probably never read in your life before." You could now probably recite that sentence with near perfect accuracy; at worse changing it in very slight ways that are still functionally ident…

Strongly agree with everything you've said, and I'd add that elite athletes have the same seemingly-incredible recall (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHibkh57FFA) - I think for the same reasons.

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#127

Post by carapace »

queuep wrote: post #57
quartesixte wrote: post #15

Disclaimer: Anecdata. I volunteer tutor high school kids in my local community. Particularly math and history. The biggest differentiator between the students who scale up quickly and those who scale up a bit more slowly is their aptitude for memorization. Recent history curricula and pedagogy in HS has placed an emphasis on “analysis” and “critical thinking.” But the students who struggle all struggle for the same r…

> Good memorization skills are a huge leverage and it is something that can be learned and practiced. Any recommendations in how to get better at memorization?

Harry Lorayne. His books cover the techniques, you just have to use them and practice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Lorayne

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#128

Post by LichenStone »

> “An overly precise memory is maybe not really what we want in the long term, because it prevents us from using our memories to generalize them to new situations,” she said in San Diego at a recent meeting of the Society for Neuroscience. “If our memories are too precise and overfitted, then we can’t actually use them to … make predictions about future situations.”

- https://knowablemagazine.org/article/mind/2019/why-we-forget

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#129

Post by circlefavshape »

muldoc wrote: post #120
quartesixte wrote: post #15

Disclaimer: Anecdata. I volunteer tutor high school kids in my local community. Particularly math and history. The biggest differentiator between the students who scale up quickly and those who scale up a bit more slowly is their aptitude for memorization. Recent history curricula and pedagogy in HS has placed an emphasis on “analysis” and “critical thinking.” But the students who struggle all struggle for the same r…

On the other hand, a good memorization skill must not necessarily mean you come to the right conclusions. Your sources, peers, genetics and a mind that is by nature chaotic, do it's part. For example, having good memory may lead you to become more arrogant. If other people praise you for your skill, you become so confident in your conclusions that you stop questioning them and rather see confirmation in an echo chamb…

A good memory might lead you into evil? Are you being serious?

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#130

Post by wenc »

andai wrote: post #83
moritonal wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have dyslexia (specifically a weakness in memory) and agree with everything you say. When not armed with a decent computer I can use as a crutch for my memory I'm noticeably weaker at critical thinking given the time spent recollecting fundamentals.

What software do you use? I have a poor memory and heavily used Notational Velocity as an external brain, but it's Mac only and I'm looking for alternatives.

I use Google Docs because it’s available on all platforms. I also carry a paper notebook.

I rarely refer to my notes again but the act of jotting them down creates a context, which acts as a hook for me. Even then my recall isn’t perfect but I haven’t run into situations where this has disadvantaged me greatly.

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