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When families un-adopt a child (2018)

theatlantic.com

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Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#121

Post by notch656a »

msrenee wrote: post #118
notch656a wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting the kid into a family where they're wanted isn't a solution? Anyone who thinks they truly know what they're signed up for when adopting or birthing a kid is a liar. You can't predict what an 18 year commitment will be like to a human you barely know (adoption) or can't know (birth). If the adopted parents don't want the kid I'd much rather them gracefully bow out than force the kid into a situation that isn't…

I feel like the solution is to screen adoptive parents much more thoroughly. It is incredibly traumatic to find out that the people you live with and depend on don't want you around any more. Whether you think the parents at that point should nut up or find a new placement for the kid, it's already messed the child up just knowing that they might lose their home and family. Why are people able to adopt 17 kids and li…

You would see less, but it would still happen. There has to be some release valve other than putting the kid and parents into a corner like trapped rats, where risk for exposure to neglect/child abuse/trauma skyrocket. If you simply say a kid can't be re-adopted out by someone who's had them for X time, you're basically sealing the fate of some kids.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#122

Post by notch656a »

mucholove wrote: post #116
david38 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“No matter what” covers a lot of territory. What if your adopted child seriously harms your new baby because they have severe attachment disorder? Are psychopathic, whatever? Lots of children available for adoption have all kinds of problems that standard parents can’t deal with. Abandoning is one thing. Recognizing you’re in way over your head is another.

When you are way in over your head, the way out is to push through the dip. A startup will have that moment. A theatre production will have that moment. Pretty much everything will have that moment. Kids too. My biological brother almost drowned me and we somehow worked it out. Having kids is a very serious affair. They didnt choose to have you. You chose to have them. It is probably the most important arena in life.…

Almost being drowned once can't possibly be compared to forcing a kid to spend 18 years with parents who don't want them. I'm sure there may even be significant trauma from your near death experience, and I'm very sorry you experienced it. But the feeling a child has from a life in an unwanted family has to be, often times, as bad or worse.

If the board or the executive of a startup sees there is no chance of success with the executive, that person ought to bow out or be replaced so the company can have a chance with someone who can and wants to turn it around. If the startup becomes unviable and bankrupt, sometimes it's better to bow out and gracefully transfer the assets to a more viable executive and/or business rather than force something that isn't going to work.

I'm not saying that people should give up easily, but I think it's brave that some families recognize the better option for everyone is to re-adopt the kid a family that wants them rather than force them to live somewhere that's headed towards a train-wreck.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#123

Post by iancmceachern »

notch656a wrote: post #112
iancmceachern wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I'm getting at. You don't get to. It's the same with having a kid via birth. You don't just get to say this sucks halfway through and give up. It's not as of the system works well, it's not as if it's all fairy tales and sunshine. The kids don't just go into another perfect situation. Put another way its not a better situation for the kid, only an out for the parents.

There is no perfect situation. These are families that "un-adopt a child." They don't want the kid. It stands to reason the kid will (or at least may) be better off if the family that doesn't want it, can find one that does. >Put another way its not a better situation for the kid, only an out for the parents. You say this as if it's fact. I don't buy that a kid is always better off (or same) to be with someone who do…

I'm not saying any of that. Just that it's flat out wrong to adopt a child, then give up because it's not what you expected. That's what it is (parenthood). This isn't a job, soccer team or a friendship, it's family.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#124

Post by notch656a »

iancmceachern wrote: post #123
notch656a wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no perfect situation. These are families that "un-adopt a child." They don't want the kid. It stands to reason the kid will (or at least may) be better off if the family that doesn't want it, can find one that does. >Put another way its not a better situation for the kid, only an out for the parents. You say this as if it's fact. I don't buy that a kid is always better off (or same) to be with someone who do…

I'm not saying any of that. Just that it's flat out wrong to adopt a child, then give up because it's not what you expected. That's what it is (parenthood). This isn't a job, soccer team or a friendship, it's family.

If you expected to be able to adequately care and integrate a child into your family, but you are unable to do so, then it makes sense a guardian may choose to adapt to the situation. If reality turns out the child can't be integrated or stay integrated with the family, I'd rather the guardian seek adoption from a family that wants them than let the situation slowly devolve into a train-wreck where they're unwanted.

Simply framing it as any sort of 'not expected' misrepresents the array of situations here.

It may be 'wrong' but at least everyone is better off. Part of life is knowing when to do something others consider 'wrong' so you can achieve the outcome that is 'right.' We shouldn't just shut off the ability to re-adopt out a kid and seal them in with an unwanting family like a trapped rat.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#125

Post by hundt »

rayiner wrote: post #119
toomuchtodo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children owe their parents and extended family nothing, as they had no choice being brought into the world. What they do with their life is entirely their choosing. Not everyone considers children joyful, but instead a burdensome, unnecessary obligation they can opt out of in nations with strong human rights protections. There is a difference between suicide as a species and an individual voluntarily choosing to not…

> Children owe their parents and extended family nothing, as they had no choice being brought into the world. What they do with their life is entirely their choosing. Terminal-state Western individualism. Not everything is about “choice.” Life chooses for us, gives us roles and duties and obligations. We come into this world owing a debt to our parents and family who help care for us that we can never repay, only pay…

I would call it a duty more than a debt. I feel that I have a duty to look after my elders, but I do not think my children owe me a debt for conceiving them or for performing my own duty to take care of them.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#126

Post by TameAntelope »

notch656a wrote: post #120
TameAntelope wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shuffling kids around based on whichever home would be “best” for them according to an evolving situation is a terrible idea. Two parents, ideally their parents, is best. Absent that, continuity is the next best thing. Moving kids out of homes they’re not in danger in is a bad idea, as the article explains.

I reject the notion continuity with an unwanting parent is always the "best thing" and I've read quite a few anecdotes from people raised in such a situation that they wished the parents who didn't want them would yield to someone who did. Sure anecdotes don't prove it's always the case, but it shows it's not never the case either. Once again, continuity can turn into a bad thing if the continuous state is "unwanted.…

I am not worried about a kid being where they are theoretically best off, I'm worried about moving kids out of situations that are "below the line" of tolerability. The goal of having these adopted children thrive is secondary to the goal of raising them to the age of 18 with the highest chance of avoiding problematic damage.

Your idea of moving children from home to home in a search for their "best" home is not a viable one, and you know that. The fact that you continue to argue is a product of your inability to discuss this rationally, not due to some genuine concern for doing what is, overall, best for these children.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#127

Post by xwdv »

massysett wrote: post #73
xwdv wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A child starts getting very expensive after age 10. Most likely, this child had served its purpose in their lives and the parents are done with their parenthood phase. It is time for someone else to take over while they travel the world and enjoy the finer things in life child free. It is possible they were just pressured into being parents by their extended family, but they didn’t really want to be.

They get cheaper as they get older. Child care for infants is extremely expensive, or the opportunity cost of staying home and watching them. Are you thinking college? Despite what expensive selective private colleges want you to think, parents do not have to pay for it.

With that logic, a child can be super cheap if you just pay the bare minimum to live. No cars, no phones, no college.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#128

Post by Scubabear68 »

notch656a wrote: post #88
Scubabear68 wrote: post #61

We adopted two older kids (age 3 and 7) when we were in our 40s/30s. It was very difficult and life changing in many ways. We sacrificed a lot to bring them into our lives. But - we knew that going into it. It has caused stress and strain and high blood pressure. But I also got to carry my son off the field on my shoulders when he ran in the the finally touch down to cap off an undefeated season. To hear my daughter…

How could you possibly know what an 15+ year commitment is like before going into it? Did you have kids prior to adopting? I don't think it's weird at all some people wish they could 'return' their kids. It's virtually impossible to truly know what it's like until you're in it.

In our case (NJ in US), we went through extensive adopt/foster training provided by State government. They were very blunt about the range of potential issues, the fact that most adopted kids will have some level of attachment disorder, many have been abused or neglected, many will have health or other mental issues.

We were prepared for some pretty difficult potential scenarios.

As it was, we got very, very lucky. Our kids are incredibly healthy. They did suffer neglect and abuse (the latter in foster care), but we somehow handled it. The general rule is the number of years of neglect or abuse is the number of years the kids will take to recover. It was right on the money for us, at 13, our son who was adopted at 7, is finally showing signs of complete normalcy.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#129

Post by notch656a »

TameAntelope wrote: post #126
notch656a wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reject the notion continuity with an unwanting parent is always the "best thing" and I've read quite a few anecdotes from people raised in such a situation that they wished the parents who didn't want them would yield to someone who did. Sure anecdotes don't prove it's always the case, but it shows it's not never the case either. Once again, continuity can turn into a bad thing if the continuous state is "unwanted.…

I am not worried about a kid being where they are theoretically best off, I'm worried about moving kids out of situations that are "below the line" of tolerability. The goal of having these adopted children thrive is secondary to the goal of raising them to the age of 18 with the highest chance of avoiding problematic damage. Your idea of moving children from home to home in a search for their "best" home is not a vi…

>Two parents, ideally their parents, is best. Absent that, continuity is the next best thing.

>I am not worried about a kid being where they are theoretically best of

Again you contradict yourself. Earlier you were worried about what's "best." Now you claim you're not. The fact that you continue to contradict yourself is a product of your inability to discuss this rationally (nor with 'continuity'), not not due to some genuine concern for doing what is, overall, best for these children.

>The goal of having these adopted children thrive is secondary to the goal of raising them to the age of 18 with the highest chance of avoiding problematic damage.

Spending a childhood with a family that doesn't want you presents the possibility of higher "problematic damage" than having the option to move to one that does.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#130

Post by [deleted] »

Scubabear68 wrote: post #128
notch656a wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could you possibly know what an 15+ year commitment is like before going into it? Did you have kids prior to adopting? I don't think it's weird at all some people wish they could 'return' their kids. It's virtually impossible to truly know what it's like until you're in it.

In our case (NJ in US), we went through extensive adopt/foster training provided by State government. They were very blunt about the range of potential issues, the fact that most adopted kids will have some level of attachment disorder, many have been abused or neglected, many will have health or other mental issues. We were prepared for some pretty difficult potential scenarios. As it was, we got very, very lucky. O…

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