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Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

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Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#121
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your point? That Russia state TV should be available everywhere so everyone can watch Russian propaganda?

If someone wants to watch Russian propaganda or RT, they should be free to do so. Just like you are free to browse western media sites. This choice should be up to the individual and their beliefs.

Yeah let people consume junk all they want. Just don’t be surprised when Jan 6th happens again.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#122
I have been blasted with propaganda and lies from the west for almost a week now.

Things that never happened: - Ghost of Kiev - Sunflower Seed Lady - Snake Island Defiance - Miss Ukraine Airsoft Fighter

Then I get sources of info closed off to me, I find that exceedingly concerning. The west is winning the information war, but at the cost of the truth? I’m of a mixed mind for sure.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#123

I believe those propagandising on behalf of an enemy - ideological or armed - without fully understanding their goals are called "useful idiots". Watch and marvel at how this term gains meaning on this thread.

Like spreading a meme about a fighter ace that never existed? I’ve seen a lot of that, it’s wild to see misinformation spread like wildfire.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My concern is that with this, you're not just segregating Russia from the world, you're segregating the EU from the world. You're going to get a new Iron Curtain, only this time, the restrictions are going to be on both sides.

We don’t need Russia. Even China has told Russia to stop the war. Only thing Russia has is gas and we shouldn’t be using fossil fuels anyway. Building of new green nuclear plants should have already been started. If you have fucked that up (like Germans) then that means you need to start hurrying

"Russian exports account for 20 percent of potassic fertilizers globally. Exports from Russia and Belarus account for a combined 40 percent of potassic fertilizers globally."

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#125
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. many (most?) people here are American, which has very pro free speech laws 2. fake news sucks, but do you really want a government agency deciding what speech is approved or not?

You surely do have laws against incitement of the masses, don't you ? One example: In Germany it's forbidden by law to deny the holocaust, use nazi symbols, greetings or other media from that era. And some state sponsored TV telling your they're saving people or helping some states while raiding their homes, killing them and using thermobaric weapons is ok ? That this won't create an uproar among all families and rel…

Another fact is that russia did forbid some german media (deutsche welle) to broadcast, so it's certainly also revenge..

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#126

Regulation: > it is necessary, consistent with the fundamental rights and freedoms recognised in the Charter of Fundamental Rights, in particular with the right to freedom of expression and information as recognised in Article 11 thereof, to introduce further restrictive measures to urgently suspend the broadcasting activities of such media outlets in the Union What. Don't gaslight me with sentences like this in a of…

Censorship does not have to be public. Private companies can and do censor things all the time. They have that right. Freedom of speech is freedom from government censorship, not private censorship.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#127
post #13

IANAL but to me, this looks (hopefully unintentionally) much more insidious (emphasis mine): > It shall be prohibited for operators to broadcast or to enable, facilitate or otherwise contribute to broadcast, any content by the legal persons, entities or bodies listed in Annex XV, including through transmission or distribution by any means such as cable, satellite, IP-TV, internet service providers, internet video-sha…

IANAL, but as far as I know, EU laws are more important than national laws (you can search "Supremacy of EU law") except in Germany, so the question is if it violates the equivalent of the constitution of the EU. According to EU officials, it does not. I've sent out some e-mails, if what you say is true I will amend it.

There are some significant asterisks

The first is that it's not that EU laws are more important, it's that by ratifying the EU treaties the members have ceded the power to act in some areas to the EU as a whole.

This applies uniformly to all member states, Germany included.

The issue that can arise is when there's a disagreement on whether or not a specific power was ceded or not, the problem being that on the one side we have the national constitutional (or equivalent) courts which are the ultimate authority for the member in question, while on the other we have the ECJ which is defined as the ultimate authority in what the Treaties say

What you're probably referring to is the recent case in which the German ConstCourt said that a judgement by the ECJ was incorrect and adopted its own, it was then resolved by some judicial diplomacy. That issue remains and it's arguably inevitable whenever multiple levels of government share power.

A further asterisk is that this is a freedom of expression issue, which is handled at three distinct levels.

At the EU level the law is likely to be found partially in contradiction with the Charter of Fundamental rights (which only applies to EU law and EU institutions or national institutions executing EU law), I don't think the broadcasting ban in itself would be but I'm pretty sure that someone posting clips of RT for instance would be found protected by the charter

However there's also a national level since the EU doesn't actually have any own enforcement, therefore the individual countries will have to adopt actual punishments and enforcement mechanisms which are then subject to respecting the national freedom of expression requirements (fundamental rights are generally of constitutional significance, so they're at least equal in precedence to EU treaties), technically the EU commission could start an infringement procedure if it deems the actions taken unsatisfactory and that process ultimately ends at the ECJ, however while the ECJ could tell the member state it has to effectively ignore their own court (which the member state can't do anyway) but since that would lead to an unresolvable constitutional crisis the ECJ is unlikely to pick that hill to die on and it has a pretty convenient clause in its mandate saying "we will respect each country's constitutional identity" which would be easily applicable here

Finally there's the ECHR, which is another international court, integrated in the member states legal system by its own treaty (confusingly the acronym is the same for the court and for the treaty) with the sole purpose of serving as a baseline for fundamental rights. The EU is not a party to the ECHR treaty (accession stalled) but all of its members are, so if any member were challenged in this court and said "we're violating article 10 because of this EU law" the ECHR would say "cool story, don't care" (if it finds a breach). This is not immediately a precedent for other countries, but others would likely file similar motions

More realistically however this is just going to be interpreted to prevent the sanctioned entities from setting up shells companies to evade it

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#128
post #103

It's depressing how utterly normal this level of censorship has become in Western society. Ten years ago there would have been at least a modicum of ho-hum about decisions to ban foreign media. I've watched RT on a few occasions and I never thought their reporting outright propaganda. It does have a clear non-pro-West bias which gives you a dose of awareness that Western reporting is biased too.

What is your point? That Russia state TV should be available everywhere so everyone can watch Russian propaganda?

Yes, exactly. If we are talking about media in general I can think of only very few examples that should be banned (like CP). I don't need anyone to decide what I'm allowed or not allowed to consume. If I want to study russian propaganda or american propaganda or "Mein Kampf" than that's what I should be able to do--without any censor.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#129
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because idiots exist everywhere, they buy the russian propaganda like warm bread

So either get rid of the idiots or get rid of the propaganda. It is easier to get rid of the propaganda.

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