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An enhancement request I submitted to Bugzilla 15 years ago was just closed

bugzilla.mozilla.org

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Re: An enhancement request I submitted to Bugzilla 15 years ago was just closed

#121

Post by stkdump »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #120
stkdump wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox was quality wise on a higher level than IE 4, and it didn't loose any of that. IE got better over the years, made a massive step forward with Edge and now again with Chromium based Edge. And finally MS is approaching Firefox in terms of quality. What kind of funding does MS have, compared to Firefox? And still they are outsourcing the hardest part of browser development, while Mozilla is still doing it on the…

I'm not quite sure how this addresses what I wrote. Three things: Firefox got popular when they listened to users and made a product people wanted. They did this despite fierce competition from a huge monopolistic company with quite a locked in and anticompetitive platform. And today they make something crazy like a half billion dollars a year from firefox, they have enough resources to make a competitive browser.

What exactly did they do that is most accurately described as listen to their users? Maybe I don't know everything that happened. But from my understand they made the best browser they could given the resources and succeeded massively, because the competition was so much worse at the time.

Also, they still make a competetive browser, as I laid out. Just the fact that some of the competition has improved massively (but by no means all of it) doesn't change that.

Re: An enhancement request I submitted to Bugzilla 15 years ago was just closed

#122

Post by scim-knox-twox »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #108
scim-knox-twox wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Closed today because it "became irrelevant in Nov 2017 "?

The "today" was in the title, didn't think I needed to repeat it.

You don't understand, read again

Re: An enhancement request I submitted to Bugzilla 15 years ago was just closed

#123

Post by throwawaylinux »

stkdump wrote: post #121
throwawaylinux wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not quite sure how this addresses what I wrote. Three things: Firefox got popular when they listened to users and made a product people wanted. They did this despite fierce competition from a huge monopolistic company with quite a locked in and anticompetitive platform. And today they make something crazy like a half billion dollars a year from firefox, they have enough resources to make a competitive browser.

What exactly did they do that is most accurately described as listen to their users? Maybe I don't know everything that happened. But from my understand they made the best browser they could given the resources and succeeded massively, because the competition was so much worse at the time. Also, they still make a competetive browser, as I laid out. Just the fact that some of the competition has improved massively (bu…

Provided useful features and functionality that people wanted. Tabs and plugins are a couple of big ones off the top of my head that people loved. It was also adopting open standards and new technologies though, which was an uphill battle because Microsoft was fighting them with incompatibilities and closed extensions, but people actually did like those things. Good support for developer features as far as I know went a long way to getting around that and having content providers take up and support firefox as well although I'm not a web developer so I'm a bit less sure of that aspect of it.

Competition has improved but so has firefox. Why should the expectation be that they stood still while everybody else went ahead? And it absolutely has declined. You also did say that they don't have features you want and seemed to imply that was part of the realities of not having enough resources or struggling to compete with google. Just doesn't seem like the reason holds water.

Re: An enhancement request I submitted to Bugzilla 15 years ago was just closed

#124

Post by stkdump »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #123
stkdump wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly did they do that is most accurately described as listen to their users? Maybe I don't know everything that happened. But from my understand they made the best browser they could given the resources and succeeded massively, because the competition was so much worse at the time. Also, they still make a competetive browser, as I laid out. Just the fact that some of the competition has improved massively (bu…

Provided useful features and functionality that people wanted. Tabs and plugins are a couple of big ones off the top of my head that people loved. It was also adopting open standards and new technologies though, which was an uphill battle because Microsoft was fighting them with incompatibilities and closed extensions, but people actually did like those things. Good support for developer features as far as I know wen…

I think you misunderstood me. How did they decide what to implement? Reacting to the outrage of individuals from their user base? I don't think so. Instead they innovated and did what nobody really asked for, because they knew it was good and had the capabilities to do it.

Re: An enhancement request I submitted to Bugzilla 15 years ago was just closed

#125

Post by ZeroGravitas »

krageon wrote: post #118
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some browser users are literally children.

Children are everywhere. They shouldn't drive cars, so we don't let them. If they shouldn't manage browser plugins, we shouldn't let them. This is really incredibly immaterial to the point - which is that browsers treat everyone like they have some sort of mental handicap.

In a competitive market, which browser is going to win, the one that says "no one under the age of 16 can use this browser because they're too likely to fall victim to the security holes we intentionally didn't fix" or the one that says "we fixed that security hole"?

I actually use a vim-style plugin in Firefox and this seems obvious to me, how do you think the majority of users feel?

Re: An enhancement request I submitted to Bugzilla 15 years ago was just closed

#126

Post by boomboomsubban »

scim-knox-twox wrote: post #122
boomboomsubban wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "today" was in the title, didn't think I needed to repeat it.

You don't understand, read again

My guess is you're pointing out the four year gap between problem "resolved" and closed but that was what I was doing.

Re: An enhancement request I submitted to Bugzilla 15 years ago was just closed

#127

Post by throwawaylinux »

stkdump wrote: post #124
throwawaylinux wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Provided useful features and functionality that people wanted. Tabs and plugins are a couple of big ones off the top of my head that people loved. It was also adopting open standards and new technologies though, which was an uphill battle because Microsoft was fighting them with incompatibilities and closed extensions, but people actually did like those things. Good support for developer features as far as I know wen…

I think you misunderstood me. How did they decide what to implement? Reacting to the outrage of individuals from their user base? I don't think so. Instead they innovated and did what nobody really asked for, because they knew it was good and had the capabilities to do it.

I don't know how their process worked exactly but if you're going to just claim they didn't listen to their users and therefore you win the argument that's pretty cheap.

They certainly listened to their users and potential users.

Re: An enhancement request I submitted to Bugzilla 15 years ago was just closed

#128

Post by stevage »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #105

> WebExtensions have various permissions associated (though not controllable by the user -- merely declared and accepted or not I think this is a major flaw in how permissions are implemented in Firefox (and Flatpak and other pieces of modern technology). Software commonly "declares" what permissions it wants, but the user doesn't have to opt-in to grant these permission. They're granted by default, and there's usual…

Exactly the same as Android then?

Re: An enhancement request I submitted to Bugzilla 15 years ago was just closed

#129

Post by stkdump »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #127
stkdump wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstood me. How did they decide what to implement? Reacting to the outrage of individuals from their user base? I don't think so. Instead they innovated and did what nobody really asked for, because they knew it was good and had the capabilities to do it.

I don't know how their process worked exactly but if you're going to just claim they didn't listen to their users and therefore you win the argument that's pretty cheap. They certainly listened to their users and potential users.

It's not cheap. I gave reasons why the world changed. You reasons (they used to listen, now they don't) don't hold water, because you can't point to anything concrete.
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