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Neuroscientists have recorded the activity of a dying human brain

blog.frontiersin.org

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Re: Neuroscientists have recorded the activity of a dying human brain

#121

Post by mattlondon »

ipnon wrote: post #27
schodi wrote: post #22

I have that inner emotion, when thinking about death. It makes me very uneasy. When We die, if there is nothing coming, how is it to not exist? I mean, what is it like? Pure black and emptyness? I then comfort myself into thinking, in the end it comes down to energy. Like being part of that endless stream of energy that became matter and probably will return to energy somewhere in infinty. Or do we maybe just restart…

Everyone has been dead before: Do you have any trepidations about the times before you were born? It's trite to say this, yes, but it gives some comfort to know we are born with the experience of not being alive. Of course Your Metaphysics may apply.

On the flip side of that, the first time we were dead, when and how did we become conscious? Obviously the biological processes have a fairly well-defined start point (i.e. conception), but obviously consciousness does not start at conception as there is no brain yet. So when does it start?

I have wrestled with this after my first kid was born - there was nothing and now there is this person with their own mind and wants. Perhaps it was just the lack of sleep that got me thinking. But - When did their consciousness start? What was that first moment of awareness? Was there that initial "spark" and something started happening? Or was it a slow, slow clearing of fog before some sort of concerted thought began? What was that first thought? is a baby in the womb aware of self? Maybe not - but if not, when does that begin? When is that first moment when a baby looks in a mirror and sees themselves? What goes through their mind that first time they realise the thing in the mirror is them?

Re: Neuroscientists have recorded the activity of a dying human brain

#122

Post by sidewndr46 »

schodi wrote: post #22

I have that inner emotion, when thinking about death. It makes me very uneasy. When We die, if there is nothing coming, how is it to not exist? I mean, what is it like? Pure black and emptyness? I then comfort myself into thinking, in the end it comes down to energy. Like being part of that endless stream of energy that became matter and probably will return to energy somewhere in infinty. Or do we maybe just restart…

I think what you are referring to (the uneasiness) is your mortality salience.

Re: Neuroscientists have recorded the activity of a dying human brain

#123

Post by UltraViolence »

I'm very skeptical of this, mostly because there's no logical reason for this to exist. Everything in our behavior and bodies has a purpose, for the most part pure survival or reproduction. There's no use for replaying memories of one's "best moments" in life.

More likely, these are random accesses of vivid memories (the ones that have been strongly imprinted on the brain) and these could be both happy or sad ones.

Re: Neuroscientists have recorded the activity of a dying human brain

#124

Post by wintorez »

schodi wrote: post #22

I have that inner emotion, when thinking about death. It makes me very uneasy. When We die, if there is nothing coming, how is it to not exist? I mean, what is it like? Pure black and emptyness? I then comfort myself into thinking, in the end it comes down to energy. Like being part of that endless stream of energy that became matter and probably will return to energy somewhere in infinty. Or do we maybe just restart…

Have you ever been under general anesthesia? For me, that's the closes you can experience "not existing". Also, you have already experienced not existing; that is before you were born. How did that feel? Was it painful?

Re: Neuroscientists have recorded the activity of a dying human brain

#125

Post by qiskit »

DonCarlitos wrote: post #8

This corresponds with what I've read previously about brain activity following clinical death. What appears to be the case is that the brain continues to work for a period after the heart stops and a last breath is taken. So what that might mean is that if one is with a person who has just died, a relative or friend, there is still a moment, just a moment, to say good bye and I love you. And it is comforting to know…

> So what that might mean is that if one is with a person who has just died, a relative or friend, there is still a moment, just a moment, to say good bye and I love you.

Just because there is brain activity doesn't mean there is consciousness. A 10 week old fetus has brain activity. But it is not anything we'd call conscious. If your heart stops or you've stopped breathing, then it's highly unlikely you are conscious. But if it helps one cope with a loved one's death, perhaps there is no harm in letting them believe the deceased could hear your final goodbyes.

Re: Neuroscientists have recorded the activity of a dying human brain

#126

Post by wintorez »

mattlondon wrote: post #121
ipnon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has been dead before: Do you have any trepidations about the times before you were born? It's trite to say this, yes, but it gives some comfort to know we are born with the experience of not being alive. Of course Your Metaphysics may apply.

On the flip side of that, the first time we were dead, when and how did we become conscious? Obviously the biological processes have a fairly well-defined start point (i.e. conception), but obviously consciousness does not start at conception as there is no brain yet. So when does it start? I have wrestled with this after my first kid was born - there was nothing and now there is this person with their own mind and w…

I'm not even convinced that we're self-aware at the moment of birth. I think self-awareness requires the brain to develop further. Around the time that we pass the mirror test is the when the self-awareness kicks in.

Re: Neuroscientists have recorded the activity of a dying human brain

#127

Post by Retric »

Pyramus wrote: post #116
davidgerard wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frontiers is a predatory open access publisher, and your first assumption should always be that anything in a Frontiers journal is pay-for-play bollocks.

Not really. You fell into the trap of judging a book by its cover. That is not to distract from the fact that there were and are controversies surrounding Frontiers - you can't just lazily extrapolate from that.

It’s fine to judge things in part based on journal because self selection is involved. That doesn’t mean anything is defiantly wrong with the paper, but it is a real signal.

Re: Neuroscientists have recorded the activity of a dying human brain

#128

Post by jvanderbot »

KineticLensman wrote: post #58
DonCarlitos wrote: post #8

This corresponds with what I've read previously about brain activity following clinical death. What appears to be the case is that the brain continues to work for a period after the heart stops and a last breath is taken. So what that might mean is that if one is with a person who has just died, a relative or friend, there is still a moment, just a moment, to say good bye and I love you. And it is comforting to know…

> the brain continues to work for a period after the heart stops I had a sudden cardiac arrest (Ventricular Fibrillation). I felt dizzy and oriented for a few seconds (5?) after my heart stopped pumping blood and then I passed out. There was no life-flashing-before-my-eyes, no tunnels of light, just sudden dizziness and disorientation and then nothing. The next thing I remember was coming round in hospital.

Right. I used to box and I'm now painfully aware of the fragility of consciousness.

If you get hit right, the ~0.25-0.5 seconds prior and after to that hit do not exist for you. They are gone. You'll never know how you were hit or what you were doing, your eyes will just change instantly from "looking ahead" to "looking to the side/up" and you'll have to adjust very quickly to this new reality, despite the fact that the transition was instantaneous for you.

One guy used to joke that if you ever said something really dumb, you'd have about 1-2 seconds to hit the person who heard it so you could continue as though it never happened. Should tell you something about the kind of person you might find at a boxing gym.

Re: Neuroscientists have recorded the activity of a dying human brain

#129

Post by ASalazarMX »

oblak wrote: post #66
KineticLensman wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the brain continues to work for a period after the heart stops I had a sudden cardiac arrest (Ventricular Fibrillation). I felt dizzy and oriented for a few seconds (5?) after my heart stopped pumping blood and then I passed out. There was no life-flashing-before-my-eyes, no tunnels of light, just sudden dizziness and disorientation and then nothing. The next thing I remember was coming round in hospital.

What if you just don't remember the experiences you've had during this moment? Not impossible, imho

Also not very likely, as people who report those experiences say they're intense and vivid, not fleeting like a dream or an alcohol blackout.

Re: Neuroscientists have recorded the activity of a dying human brain

#130

Post by rootusrootus »

emteycz wrote: post #93
rootusrootus wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> usually you'd be trying to save the dying person by any means I expect that in the majority of deaths, nobody is making any effort whatsoever to save the dying person.

We're talking about people lying on hospital bed tied to EEG. There are usually going to be people saving that person.

Unless they are lying in bed preparing to die. In which case we could opt to hook them up to an EEG and record it, for the science. It would not be the least bit difficult to get any number of willing volunteers, it would not require some kind of accident. OP was wondering how it could be possible that nobody ever thought to do exactly that.
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