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My First 80 Days of VR for Exercise

nathanlippi.com

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Re: My First 80 Days of VR for Exercise

#121

Post by hombre_fatal »

zfnmxt wrote: post #120

VR exercise is a remarkably poor allocation of time (if your interest is physical fitness, efficiently). It also leaves out the most important adaptation of all: strength. Effective training (not exercising) requires a progression model. That is, on some time frame you must exceed your performance at the end of that time frame when compared to the beginning of the time frame. This must be done in some measurable way-…

1) The best exercise is the one you do.

2) You are too dismissive, hand waving/wringing behind the word “effective”. You don’t need to min/max and obsess over progression and optimization to get good exercise. I’m jacked just doing push-ups, pull-ups, and body weight squats here and there. I don’t count them, I just do some, but I do some every day.

Where people fail is the daily consistency and making the lifestyle change of actually exercising at all regularly, not because they aren’t exercising optimally.

If VR compels someone to exercise, it kinda seems like you would butt in with this “well actually” sort of unhelpful discouragement before you even know what their goals are. Sounds like you may only have one narrow goal in mind.

Your posts in these threads remind me of all the instant guru redditors that just read Starting Strength and now dunk on people in r/fitness.

Re: My First 80 Days of VR for Exercise

#122

Post by WalterBright »

caslon wrote: post #108
WalterBright wrote: post #97

Geez, go outside for a run. Get some fresh air, smell the rain, say hi to the neighbors, watch houses being built, get chased by a dog, check the Little Library for something interesting, swallow a bug, see if anyone has a cool car in their garage.

Counterpoint: No. VR is great. You don't have to spike your risk of skin cancer, you don't have to deal with allergies, you don't have to run along a road that constantly has drunken teenagers crashing into mailboxes, there are no mosquitos that will make your life miserable, and you can play with friends, regardless of the fact that they're traveling, or live elsewhere. You don't have to deal with motion sickness as…

A few comments (I know I won't change your mind):

I run when the sun is lower in the sky because of skin cancer risk. For 6 months of the year, it's low enough that it isn't an issue any time of day. I also wear a hat and long sleeved shirt. I know this works because I don't have a tan. I've never been bitten by a mosquito when running, it's when I stop they get me.

As for it being boring, I zone out and work on my projects in my head when running.

Not sure why you'd bother with a spread with a view if you don't enjoy it.

Re: My First 80 Days of VR for Exercise

#123

Post by Kiro »

zfnmxt wrote: post #120

VR exercise is a remarkably poor allocation of time (if your interest is physical fitness, efficiently). It also leaves out the most important adaptation of all: strength. Effective training (not exercising) requires a progression model. That is, on some time frame you must exceed your performance at the end of that time frame when compared to the beginning of the time frame. This must be done in some measurable way-…

I've done a lot of stronglift and don't think it's fun. It's a chore I do because it's good for me. VR training on the other hand is extremely fun and I still look forward to each session. It's not until I take off the headset I notice that I'm soaking in sweat.

Re: My First 80 Days of VR for Exercise

#124

Post by WalterBright »

watwut wrote: post #118
WalterBright wrote: post #97

Geez, go outside for a run. Get some fresh air, smell the rain, say hi to the neighbors, watch houses being built, get chased by a dog, check the Little Library for something interesting, swallow a bug, see if anyone has a cool car in their garage.

While I do run regularly, you gotta admit it is probably the most boring sport from them all.

Nah, weightlifting is the most boring.

Running for me means I'm working in my head on my projects. It's the most productive part of my work day.

Re: My First 80 Days of VR for Exercise

#125

Post by zfnmxt »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #121
zfnmxt wrote: post #120

VR exercise is a remarkably poor allocation of time (if your interest is physical fitness, efficiently). It also leaves out the most important adaptation of all: strength. Effective training (not exercising) requires a progression model. That is, on some time frame you must exceed your performance at the end of that time frame when compared to the beginning of the time frame. This must be done in some measurable way-…

1) The best exercise is the one you do. 2) You are too dismissive, hand waving/wringing behind the word “effective”. You don’t need to min/max and obsess over progression and optimization to get good exercise. I’m jacked just doing push-ups, pull-ups, and body weight squats here and there. I don’t count them, I just do some, but I do some every day. Where people fail is the daily consistency and making the lifestyle…

> You don’t need to min/max and obsess over progression and optimization to get good exercise.

You're right, but I'm not talking about exercise, I'm talking about training. You do need to "obsess" over progression if you intend to progress.

> I’m jacked just doing push-ups, pull-ups, and squats here and there.

You almost certainly are not. Having low bodyfat is not the same thing as being "jacked". Weight/height? How much can you squat?

> Where people fail is the daily consistency and making the lifestyle change of actually exercising at all regularly, not because they aren’t exercising optimally.

My argument is that these things are highly related. That is, lifting effectively makes lifting consistently much easier--if you're seeing continued, measurable progress (every time you lift your numbers go up--how exciting!) and actual physical changes and improvements to your quality of life, it really isn't so difficult to be consistent because the process itself is incredibly enjoyable and rewarding. Continued habits are not formed by discipline, they are formed by finding something you enjoy in the habit; at least some component of the habit itself must become compelling.

Re: My First 80 Days of VR for Exercise

#126

Post by Kiro »

zfnmxt wrote: post #110
zmmmmm wrote: post #86

VR exercise was a bit of a revelation for me. Used to run 8km per day but lockdown convinced me to try exercise at home using VR and I fell in love with it. Apart from being fun (you're literally playing computer games), I got a much better workout, exercising parts of my body that running didn't touch. I actually started bulking up in my upper arms for the first time in my life. Really surprised me and sold me that…

> I actually started bulking up in my upper arms for the first time in my life. No you didn't, unless you were completely and utterly detrained (i.e., previously bedridden or something) and even then, the stimulus would've only resulted in adaptation for a short period. VR exercise is far too submaximal (in regards to strength) to result in meaningful strength adaptations past a short initial adaptation period.

I also build muscles in VR training and I've done a lot of stronglift so I know what progression is like. Pistol Whip is great for building leg muscles. Imagine doing that one more squat you didn't think you had in you when in the squat rack. In Pistol Whip you do that 20 times without noticing.

You don't need progressive overload to build muscles. High rep sets should not be underestimated.

Re: My First 80 Days of VR for Exercise

#127

Post by Broken_Hippo »

zfnmxt wrote: post #120

VR exercise is a remarkably poor allocation of time (if your interest is physical fitness, efficiently). It also leaves out the most important adaptation of all: strength. Effective training (not exercising) requires a progression model. That is, on some time frame you must exceed your performance at the end of that time frame when compared to the beginning of the time frame. This must be done in some measurable way-…

None of this matters if you find exercise and training of this sort so mind-numbingly boring that you active avoid the it due to hate of activity. You might try your best to convince me that it is fun, but I whole-heartedly disagree. It is repetitive boredom, about as fun as housework and maybe worse (which is why I keep a messy house).

I'll be physically weak and happy instead and continue to put concepts into my mind and enjoy the activity I do get, thank you.

Re: My First 80 Days of VR for Exercise

#128

Post by zfnmxt »

Kiro wrote: post #123
zfnmxt wrote: post #120

VR exercise is a remarkably poor allocation of time (if your interest is physical fitness, efficiently). It also leaves out the most important adaptation of all: strength. Effective training (not exercising) requires a progression model. That is, on some time frame you must exceed your performance at the end of that time frame when compared to the beginning of the time frame. This must be done in some measurable way-…

I've done a lot of stronglift and don't think it's fun. It's a chore I do because it's good for me. VR training on the other hand is extremely fun and I still look forward to each session. It's not until I take off the headset I notice that I'm soaking in sweat.

That's too bad. Out of curiosity, do you have meaningful progress on Stronglifts? Can you tell me what your starting lifts were and what you're at now?

Re: My First 80 Days of VR for Exercise

#129

Post by zmmmmm »

zfnmxt wrote: post #110
zmmmmm wrote: post #86

VR exercise was a bit of a revelation for me. Used to run 8km per day but lockdown convinced me to try exercise at home using VR and I fell in love with it. Apart from being fun (you're literally playing computer games), I got a much better workout, exercising parts of my body that running didn't touch. I actually started bulking up in my upper arms for the first time in my life. Really surprised me and sold me that…

> I actually started bulking up in my upper arms for the first time in my life. No you didn't, unless you were completely and utterly detrained (i.e., previously bedridden or something) and even then, the stimulus would've only resulted in adaptation for a short period. VR exercise is far too submaximal (in regards to strength) to result in meaningful strength adaptations past a short initial adaptation period.

Well, I'm not sure if this is about differences in definitions .... I don't know what adaptation means. All I can tell you is it had a significant impact on the actual physical bulk of my upper arms.

The main driver of that was SynthRiders, where you get points for punching targets as hard as you can. To get to the top of the leader board you have to pretty much hit targets with all your strength for 3-4 mins. 30 mins of that a day over several months was enough to make a significant difference.

Re: My First 80 Days of VR for Exercise

#130

Post by Broken_Hippo »

zfnmxt wrote: post #125
hombre_fatal wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) The best exercise is the one you do. 2) You are too dismissive, hand waving/wringing behind the word “effective”. You don’t need to min/max and obsess over progression and optimization to get good exercise. I’m jacked just doing push-ups, pull-ups, and body weight squats here and there. I don’t count them, I just do some, but I do some every day. Where people fail is the daily consistency and making the lifestyle…

> You don’t need to min/max and obsess over progression and optimization to get good exercise. You're right, but I'm not talking about exercise, I'm talking about training. You do need to "obsess" over progression if you intend to progress. > I’m jacked just doing push-ups, pull-ups, and squats here and there. You almost certainly are not. Having low bodyfat is not the same thing as being "jacked". Weight/height? How…

Continued habits are not formed by discipline, they are formed by finding something you enjoy in the habit; at least some component of the habit itself must become compelling.

You keep applying this to exercise, though, and obviously you have gotten enjoyment from it that others don't - but then you are putting down what other people manage to do. I don't care how much I could lift, nor do I think that I need more strength than what I need in everyday life - and realistically, that's just generally carrying groceries home from the grocery store and things like that (I'm in a walkable location and just walk 15 minutes each way).

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