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15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

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Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#121

Post by sterlind »

austinjp wrote: post #87
sterlind wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm suffering through learning to code again without much use of my hands. I would very much like Neuralink to be a thing.

Out of genuine curiosity, without wishing to seem challenging, and appreciating that engaging in lengthy conversation online might be difficult for you... I wonder if other technologies might come to market quicker. Frankly, I wonder if neuralink will come to market at all, and how affordable and accessible it will be. I can't imagine someone without the use of their limbs in a developing nation benefiting from neura…

oh, I definitely have no loyalty to Neuralink. I'd particularly like it if something like Open Water, a non-invasive IR refraction imager, would succeed. Implants sound dangerous, difficult to maintain and intractable to upgrade.

And accessibility tech tends to be crappy and massively overpriced unless it's marketed to able-bodied users as well. My eye tracker was $200, because it's for "gamers", while the eye trackers for disability cost >$10K despite having the same hardware. Neuralink is never going to be affordable.

I probably overstated my impairments a bit. I can type and walk for short periods, just not sustainably. Basically my joints dislocate constantly and my nerves are unreliable. I'm at the level where e.g. something like a powered exoskeleton would be extremely useful, but not bad off enough for insurance to cover it if it costs $200K (since I can get around the house most of the time as long as it's short, and wheelchairs are cheaper.) So even in developed countries cost is an issue.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#122

Post by sterlind »

hughrr wrote: post #88
sterlind wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm suffering through learning to code again without much use of my hands. I would very much like Neuralink to be a thing.

But are you comfortable torturing other entities for your personal gain? That’s pretty much what this comes down to.

I'm not sure. if I need it to survive? yeah, probably. I'm vegetarian but I'd kill animals if the alternative were starving. all the meds I take were tested on animals, some of them probably primates.

if there's an alternative that's a bit crappier but pretty usable? then I'd choose that.

if the alternative only lets me eke out a meager existence, dependent on help and unable to work? I'd probably still go with what works, even if it means animals were harmed. I dunno if that makes me a crappy person, but it's hard feeling this helpless.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#123

Post by YaBomm »

Lanolderen wrote: post #40
NotHim wrote: post #4

Elon almost always overpromises and under delivers. The majority of his projects never really come to fruition.

I'm kinda biased since I like his balls but I find people kinda set Elon's bar way too high. From what I see he's just a workaholic chasing his interests/dreams although at times naively.

No post body was provided.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#124

Post by uxcolumbo »

Direct link to PCRM's article: https://www.pcrm.org/news/news-releases/physicians-group-fil...

And the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine is more than an animal rights activist group.

---------------

The Physicians Committee combines the clout and expertise of more than 17,000 physicians with the dedicated actions of more than 175,000 members across the United States and around the world.

The Physicians Committee is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization, headquartered in Washington, DC. Our efforts are dramatically changing the way doctors treat chronic diseases such as diabetes, heart disease, obesity, and cancer. By putting prevention over pills, doctors are empowering their patients to take control of their own health.

And we are also building a new way of viewing research. Since 1985, the Physicians Committee has worked tirelessly for alternatives to the use of animals in medical education and research and for more effective scientific methods.

Our staff of physicians, dietitians, and scientists is working with policymakers, industry, the medical community, the media, and the public to create a better future for people and animals.

------------

From: https://www.pcrm.org

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#125

Post by callesgg »

sdoering wrote: post #24

I can't even imagine how these experiments are passing an ethics committee. I had never heard of this experiment before, but this report is one of these moments, that make me question, if we took the wrong branch of reality. A billionaire torturing animals for a self gain goal disguised as scientific research sounds like a plot from a James Bond movie of my childhood. I just can't wrap my head around.

Imagine they have the potential to make people with broken backs walk again.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#126

Post by native_samples »

Barrin92 wrote: post #30

"Neuralink chips were implanted by drilling holes into the monkeys’ skulls. One primate developed a bloody skin infection and had to be euthanized. Another was discovered missing fingers and toes, “possibly from self-mutilation or some other unspecified trauma,” and had to be put down. A third began uncontrollably vomiting shortly after surgery, and days later “appeared to collapse from exhaustion/fatigue.” An autops…

Why wait 50 years? These sorts of experiments are toe-curling and horrible to think about today. If the claims are true and they seem rather specific to be false, I'll never look at Neuralink the same way again.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#127

Post by walkhour »

Barrin92 wrote: post #30

"Neuralink chips were implanted by drilling holes into the monkeys’ skulls. One primate developed a bloody skin infection and had to be euthanized. Another was discovered missing fingers and toes, “possibly from self-mutilation or some other unspecified trauma,” and had to be put down. A third began uncontrollably vomiting shortly after surgery, and days later “appeared to collapse from exhaustion/fatigue.” An autops…

The justification will be a consequentialist argument, we sacrificed/tortured animals and in exchange we gave this to humanity; the overall calculus is a net positive.

This post shows the very worst of the equation, and they will bring up the best, maybe some people that couldn't walk that now can, or some psychological disease for which this contributed to the cure.

They will probably bring up numbers like, this damaged hundreds, but will benefit hundreds of thousands.

This is not the first time society accepts such a compromise. There are innocent people in jail serving life sentences, because every criteria will have false positives. We can undo this wrong right now, we just have to let everyone out of prison.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#128

Post by ravar »

Barrin92 wrote: post #30

"Neuralink chips were implanted by drilling holes into the monkeys’ skulls. One primate developed a bloody skin infection and had to be euthanized. Another was discovered missing fingers and toes, “possibly from self-mutilation or some other unspecified trauma,” and had to be put down. A third began uncontrollably vomiting shortly after surgery, and days later “appeared to collapse from exhaustion/fatigue.” An autops…

And Yet I see noone here talking about the (more) cruel experiments on dogs that Faucci supported. People find their principles whenever its convenient to attack someone they dislike for other reasons.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#129

Post by birksherty »

walkhour wrote: post #127
Barrin92 wrote: post #30

"Neuralink chips were implanted by drilling holes into the monkeys’ skulls. One primate developed a bloody skin infection and had to be euthanized. Another was discovered missing fingers and toes, “possibly from self-mutilation or some other unspecified trauma,” and had to be put down. A third began uncontrollably vomiting shortly after surgery, and days later “appeared to collapse from exhaustion/fatigue.” An autops…

The justification will be a consequentialist argument, we sacrificed/tortured animals and in exchange we gave this to humanity; the overall calculus is a net positive. This post shows the very worst of the equation, and they will bring up the best, maybe some people that couldn't walk that now can, or some psychological disease for which this contributed to the cure. They will probably bring up numbers like, this dam…

Net positive for who? Humans? Only one species but net result is huge negative for all other species.

Only as a selfish species we find this positive.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#130

Post by birksherty »

Aterio wrote: post #110
Barrin92 wrote: post #30

"Neuralink chips were implanted by drilling holes into the monkeys’ skulls. One primate developed a bloody skin infection and had to be euthanized. Another was discovered missing fingers and toes, “possibly from self-mutilation or some other unspecified trauma,” and had to be put down. A third began uncontrollably vomiting shortly after surgery, and days later “appeared to collapse from exhaustion/fatigue.” An autops…

I have to tell you that while you see it as unethical, I don't. I think this type of research might bring us a level forward for people who are blind or have parkinson's or other things and that this also might be the way for us humans to evolve further. If the results of this type of research is fruitless, that will still be a discovery. I do justify the experiments and death of those handful animals through the typ…

It is unethical. You just don't see it because we are selfish and does not care about ethics when there is our profit, humans in a nutshell.
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