Netflix Splits DVD And Streaming Businesses • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix Splits DVD And Streaming Businesses

#121

Post by bradleyland » Mon, Sep 19, 2011, 1:42 PM UTC

encoderer wrote: post #89

Jun8 wrote: post #59

It seems I'm in the minority who thinks this is an over the top reaction to Wall Street pressure. It was clear for a number of years now that Netflix saw streaming as the future. But cutting off the DVD business like that... it's extreme. A lot of the movies are not available for streaming. Yes, their streaming portfolio is probably still the best (and has excellent children's content, my son watches it every night)…

1. I think that's your best point, and it's true that the real test will be if they can grow their streaming catalog enough. 3. It's not as if this HAS to be that way. In a blog comment Hastings said initially both sites would have all existing and current data. We're technologists here, is it hard for anybody here to imagine how sharing that data would work? 6. How will it be a distraction to now have a company that…

Regarding point 1. Netflix just created a huge discoverability problem. We ditched our streaming package and became a DVD-by-mail customer only. Not for lack of want or desire to be a streaming customer though. I'm just not all that crazy about paying their monthly fee for TV shows (I already have cable) and backlist DVD content.

We like movies. I can't see how we're not a target customer, but I can't get most new releases on Netflix streaming. Now that streaming and DVD-by-mail are separate companies, how will Netflix convert customers? With completely separate websites, what opportunities will exist to inform me that the movie I'm about to receive in the mail is also available through their streaming plan? I'd like to know that, because the moment they lock up deals for the content I want, I'd be on board.

Re: Netflix Splits DVD And Streaming Businesses

#122

Post by CWuestefeld » Mon, Sep 19, 2011, 1:47 PM UTC

sudonim wrote: post #112

foobarbazoo wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the customer's perspective, they are not two separate businesses. They are one, strong business (well, were). Streaming is most valuable when DVD is (a) there as a backup, and (b) managed with the same system. Netflix has seriously decreased the value of their streaming offering by separating out the DVD and de-integrating their systems. There is basically no reason to pay for Kwikster now (terrible name BTW), a…

You don't speak for all Netflix customers when you offer your perspective. I joined Netflix because of streaming and I prefer to look at streaming only. When I joined netflix I got a DVD and didn't return it for a year. I didn't want to return it because I didn't want to get another DVD. In search results I never wanted to see the DVD results. I wanted to see what I could watch now. Content is such a key part of this…

I think you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There are straightforward technical solutions they could implement to address your complaints, but for those of us that aren't so extreme, there's no easy solution to the way they're breaking our desired usage.

Re: Netflix Splits DVD And Streaming Businesses

#123

Post by cookiecaper » Mon, Sep 19, 2011, 1:49 PM UTC

perucoder wrote: post #117

frossie wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The attack surface for other companies has just doubled If anything, that is an underestimate. I really can't understand what they are thinking. Since I am interested in both DVD and streaming, up to now I was completely locked into Netflix because of the integrated system - my "Instant" queue is just the subset of my DVD queue that is streamable. If they break that link, and I derive no gain from being BOTH a Netfli…

What's to stop you from switching to Amazon? Have you tried watching a movie on Amazon? Way less usable and its hard to find movies sometimes. Netflix has a way better interface and what I find myself doing is checking on Netflix first, and then only if they don't have it, do I go to Amazon.

I've watched things on Amazon Instant in the past and didn't find it any less usable. In fact, I actually find Amazon more usable since it works on my operating system.

It's kind of a moot point to say "Well, Amazon has a crappier interface, so Netflix is safe", since Amazon can always update its interface to something more friendly. The important point is that Netflix has given up one of the major incentives to use its service -- the integration of DVD and streaming.

Re: Netflix Splits DVD And Streaming Businesses

#124

Post by turtle4 » Mon, Sep 19, 2011, 1:50 PM UTC

perucoder wrote: post #117

frossie wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The attack surface for other companies has just doubled If anything, that is an underestimate. I really can't understand what they are thinking. Since I am interested in both DVD and streaming, up to now I was completely locked into Netflix because of the integrated system - my "Instant" queue is just the subset of my DVD queue that is streamable. If they break that link, and I derive no gain from being BOTH a Netfli…

What's to stop you from switching to Amazon? Have you tried watching a movie on Amazon? Way less usable and its hard to find movies sometimes. Netflix has a way better interface and what I find myself doing is checking on Netflix first, and then only if they don't have it, do I go to Amazon.

I think the parent's point was, that is the case -now-. But that could change with one new release of Amazon's steaming service. Previously, even if Amazon released a new offering, the mailing service added an additional incentive to stay with netflix. Now if Amazon releases a better streaming option, you can simply dump Netflix streaming.

Re: Netflix Splits DVD And Streaming Businesses

#125

Post by cookiecaper » Mon, Sep 19, 2011, 1:51 PM UTC

jonnathanson wrote: post #99

Jun8 wrote: post #59

It seems I'm in the minority who thinks this is an over the top reaction to Wall Street pressure. It was clear for a number of years now that Netflix saw streaming as the future. But cutting off the DVD business like that... it's extreme. A lot of the movies are not available for streaming. Yes, their streaming portfolio is probably still the best (and has excellent children's content, my son watches it every night)…

"...A lot of the movies are not available for streaming." Quite a lot, actually, including the majority of new releases. And this will only become more evident in the eyes of streaming subscribers when they no longer see most of the new titles listed in searches. (Even the presence of those "Only available on DVD" titles in streaming-service SERPs lent a sort of subconscious, psychological indication of the robustnes…

I'll be interested to see if the split compels media companies to make more content available for streaming. Perhaps that's part of the logic behind splitting out the business; Netflix may have reasoned that it will put more pressure on content holders to license that content for streaming if it won't be available on Netflix at all anymore. In this scenario, it seems that Netflix may be throwing the DVD arm under the bus in hopes that it will strengthen their streaming offering.

Re: Netflix Splits DVD And Streaming Businesses

#126

Post by cookiecaper » Mon, Sep 19, 2011, 1:56 PM UTC

va_coder wrote: post #96

Jun8 wrote: post #59

It seems I'm in the minority who thinks this is an over the top reaction to Wall Street pressure. It was clear for a number of years now that Netflix saw streaming as the future. But cutting off the DVD business like that... it's extreme. A lot of the movies are not available for streaming. Yes, their streaming portfolio is probably still the best (and has excellent children's content, my son watches it every night)…

DVDs are on their way out and streaming is now in and he's putting all his efforts into the streaming business. What if Microsoft did something similar? What if the CEO in 1998 put all his efforts and attention into the Web? Results for Microsoft might have been much better.

Microsoft is perhaps the most business-savvy major tech company around. I for one am glad that we didn't have this kind of disaster back then -- Microsoft has always recognized and capitalized on its bread and butter: Windows and Office. These two are the workhorses, the crown jewels in the Microsoft empire, and almost everything else that Microsoft does is centered on strengthening the positions of these two cash cows. Splitting these into a separate entity would have been utterly ridiculous.

Again, Windows and Office are and always have been the lifeblood of Microsoft. You really think they should have decided to let someone else make all of that money in 1998 and retooled their whole business to keep only Hotmail? I think that would have been disastrous for MS.

Re: Netflix Splits DVD And Streaming Businesses

#127

Post by ABCD_FUFU » Mon, Sep 19, 2011, 1:59 PM UTC

majikrooster wrote: post #95

arithmetic wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had to pick between DVD and streaming service, and make one of them phenomenally better than what it is now, which one would you pick? DVD, because everyone knows and loves it? Or streaming, because it's growing rapidly? You get to pick one. With the split, Netflix gets to focus entirely on streaming - make it better for the customer. Which means, more (and better) content, faster and better streaming service,…

He must of done a much better job getting the employees to drink the kool aid then the customers

Its probably just a marketing drone. The level of clueless ness at netflix is astounding. How about the we'll get rid of reviewers that are 40 times better than our clueless recommendation system and replace them at a future date with the getsapo facebook? Whats that you say gestapo facebook is illegal? Oh well we didnt want your opinions anyway. We replaced the customer with a robot.

Re: Netflix Splits DVD And Streaming Businesses

#128

Post by encoderer » Mon, Sep 19, 2011, 2:05 PM UTC

bradleyland wrote: post #121

encoderer wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I think that's your best point, and it's true that the real test will be if they can grow their streaming catalog enough. 3. It's not as if this HAS to be that way. In a blog comment Hastings said initially both sites would have all existing and current data. We're technologists here, is it hard for anybody here to imagine how sharing that data would work? 6. How will it be a distraction to now have a company that…

Regarding point 1. Netflix just created a huge discoverability problem. We ditched our streaming package and became a DVD-by-mail customer only. Not for lack of want or desire to be a streaming customer though. I'm just not all that crazy about paying their monthly fee for TV shows (I already have cable) and backlist DVD content. We like movies. I can't see how we're not a target customer, but I can't get most new re…

"With completely separate websites, what opportunities will exist to inform me "

Your comment here is echoed all over HN and the Netflix blog.

Obviously being a separate website in no way prevents them from engaging in that sort of cross promotion. Strikes me as common sense. Comments like yours seem to imply an airgap between the two sites. I haven't read anything official that should suggest that.

Re: Netflix Splits DVD And Streaming Businesses

#129

Post by cookiecaper » Mon, Sep 19, 2011, 2:11 PM UTC

arithmetic wrote: post #83

foobarbazoo wrote: post #62

Qwikster is a terrible name, and this is a terrible move. Hastings is now in competition with that guy running HP to see who can destroy their company first. Maybe Ballmer will get in the game and spin off Windows/Office from Microsoft, and rebrand them "Facetown", while proclaiming Bing to be the future of the company. Unbelievable. Update: I predict Qwikster is dead and buried within 5 years, and someone else pushe…

Netflix employee here. I've been reading all the comments here and at Reed's blog to understand what everyone has to say about the split. Internally, we've known about the split for some time now. Why do you think this is a terrible move? Your comment has a lot of unflattering comparisons, but doesn't explain why the move is stupid. Also, you're probably right that DVD as a service will not last forever, and Reed und…

It's a terrible move because you're splitting the business on an irrelevant implementation detail. There is one thing at the root of all this from a customer's perspective: watching TV and movies. Netflix as a unified DVD and streaming solution facilitated this well for reasons already mentioned; you could stream if streaming was available and desirable under the circumstances, but you could wait for the DVD if you had a good reason to do so, and these services both cooperated to enhance the customer's single experience and goal of watching movies.

There really is no reason this should not have been a significant internal restructuring offering the necessary resources to both divisions instead of a major public split like this. It's simply not a customer-facing issue. Now, as DVD becomes less and less relevant, Qwikster is doomed to an eventual shutdown, its users will lose their data (recommendations, rental history, reviews, etc) and/or Netflix will have to merge it back in to its database anyway, and there are just a myriad of other inconveniences from the user side.

Essentially, you broke something that was working well for its customers for the convenience of internal management and politicking.

Re: Netflix Splits DVD And Streaming Businesses

#130

Post by nihilocrat » Mon, Sep 19, 2011, 2:22 PM UTC

For the record, since Netflix Canada launched sometime last year, it has been a streaming-only service. We have a kind of sucky selection that is getting better as time passes, but I can understand why they went streaming-only. From this perspective, it's pretty odd seeing people disapproving of the choice or showing attachment to the DVD service.