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My first three months with a Nokia dumb phone as a daily driver

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Re: My first three months with a Nokia dumb phone as a daily driver

#121

Post by jabbany »

INTPenis wrote: post #111
jabbany wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't do most of these things even on a smartphone in the US!... - identify myself: The state I'm in has not rolled out any support for electronic IDs so short of "taking a photo of a DL (which the Nokia also would allow for) and hoping for the best", I can't do this with a smartphone either. - ride the bus, buy tickets for trains: Ditto for transit. No phone-compatible NFC integration at all means I still need a g…

Yes but the US is a poor backwards country compared to some. No offence, that's just how it seems to many of us. And then of course there are those who'd say the US is doing it right because we're so cashless that people are protesting against this new way of life. I personally don't care. I think if we ever get to a point when an authoritarian rule is threatening our liberties then cash, traceable train tickets and…

My point really is just that as a matter of reality there are plenty of people who don't expect these features out of even smartphones, let alone non-smart phones. Unlike things such as "loading a page with JS/CSS", "playing video" or "having a camera" which I doubt you'd find anyone disagreeing are basic features of smartphones.

There's also nothing inherently preventing these features from being implemented in a basic phone like in the article, technologically speaking. The features aren't supported because the market to support them is too small or nonexistent.

As one point of reference: Because NFC support is spotty on phones, subway systems in many Chinese cities allow scanning a QR code to pay fares by phone. There's no reason this could not be implemented as an app on this "feature" phone. It's not there because the places this phone is sold don't have a market for this feature.

Re: My first three months with a Nokia dumb phone as a daily driver

#122

Post by Freak_NL »

Beltalowda wrote: post #113
Freak_NL wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I will have to buy one soon, because it is pretty much the only way we can establish a line of communication with other parents of my young son's peers at kindergarten (he's nearing 3). Not doing so would stunt his growth on an emotional level, because we would deprive him of things like play dates and such. Not due to malice on the part of other parents, but because not having WhatsApp (here in the Nethe…

Yeah, social stuff like that is an issue. I currently use Telegram to keep in touch with some friends; the big upshot of Telegram is that after registering, you can use web.telegram.org or the desktop app without having your smartphone (or in my case, emulator) powered on. There's no E2E encryption, but that's fine. WhatsApp, Signal, and most other solutions really are tied to the smartphone: web.whatsapp.com will ro…

> […] but I guess that's too obscure of a "market" to cater too

Oh no, this is on purpose. WhatsApp, Signal, etc. want to maintain control of the clients at all costs because of user tracking and monetization. If this wasn't the case, they would allow some form of non-smartphone access. As it is they keep their API's closed and ban anyone trying to use any form of third party tools.

In the case of Meta (WhatsApp) this is about keeping their silo-suite closed. People may hate Facebook, but if they can keep these users via the popular WhatsApp, they can keep up their numbers. What Signal really wants is anyone's guess. Something to do with that shifty cryptocoin I guess.

> I just want the freedom to use an "alternative" system like my Linux desktop or maybe some eclectic device like PinePhone or those modern PDA things or whatnot […]

Absolutely.

Re: My first three months with a Nokia dumb phone as a daily driver

#123

Post by Beltalowda »

Freak_NL wrote: post #122
Beltalowda wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, social stuff like that is an issue. I currently use Telegram to keep in touch with some friends; the big upshot of Telegram is that after registering, you can use web.telegram.org or the desktop app without having your smartphone (or in my case, emulator) powered on. There's no E2E encryption, but that's fine. WhatsApp, Signal, and most other solutions really are tied to the smartphone: web.whatsapp.com will ro…

> […] but I guess that's too obscure of a "market" to cater too Oh no, this is on purpose. WhatsApp, Signal, etc. want to maintain control of the clients at all costs because of user tracking and monetization. If this wasn't the case, they would allow some form of non-smartphone access. As it is they keep their API's closed and ban anyone trying to use any form of third party tools. In the case of Meta (WhatsApp) thi…

Maybe; I don't know. Telegram has the same incentives (and I believe they have some crypto wazamabob as well). I think it's much more likely that it's just easier for them: abuse is a serious issue and the more "closed" a platform is, the harder (not impossible, just harder) it becomes to abuse it (see: email). And not having to worry about third party integration/APIs, compatibility, documentation, etc. also makes their lives just easier.

Getting all of this to work well with E2E requires extra thought (how do you make messages available on two devices?); Telegram hasn't nailed that either. I don't especially care about this, but a lot of people do.

Essentially, there are basically no practical upshots for them, and it's just more effort.

Re: My first three months with a Nokia dumb phone as a daily driver

#124

Post by multjoy »

pibechorro wrote: post #117
INTPenis wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but the US is a poor backwards country compared to some. No offence, that's just how it seems to many of us. And then of course there are those who'd say the US is doing it right because we're so cashless that people are protesting against this new way of life. I personally don't care. I think if we ever get to a point when an authoritarian rule is threatening our liberties then cash, traceable train tickets and…

Authoritarian rule doesnt persist via tanks and stormtroopers knocking on your door, it persist by leveraging minor daily convenience, necessities, which mold compliance. Social credit system. If you cant take the bus to work, if you are denied healthcare because of xyz, if you are denied access to credit, or the grocery store, etc.in a cashless economy.. then most people are controlled without any violence. This is…

>This is one of the main reasons many are against an increase of centrally managed services such as universal state healthcare

Huh, who'd have thought that treatment at the point of use is simply a way for Big Government to control me.

I shall insist on paying thousands of pounds for simple and routine treatments in future. That will show them.

Re: My first three months with a Nokia dumb phone as a daily driver

#125

Post by sneak »

Freak_NL wrote: post #81
Beltalowda wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just write things down on a piece of paper; or just "yolo it". It works well enough, although lack of GPS can be inconvenient at times, I find it's not a huge deal – this is how almost everyone got around up to ~10 years ago. I never used taxi services anyway; bus services are pretty good here, and I cycle. A bigger issue is that a lot of services are "smartphone-only", and can't be done with a regular computer; so…

My wife and I will have to buy one soon, because it is pretty much the only way we can establish a line of communication with other parents of my young son's peers at kindergarten (he's nearing 3). Not doing so would stunt his growth on an emotional level, because we would deprive him of things like play dates and such. Not due to malice on the part of other parents, but because not having WhatsApp (here in the Nethe…

We will never be free of WhatsApp if we continue caving and using the service, making it more valuable to others.

Every time you cave and use Facebook spyware, you make it harder for the next person.

Stop using tools that make the world worse. Tell your contacts to install Signal instead.

You must be unreachable on WhatsApp, so that the utility of the app is not increased for others.

Re: My first three months with a Nokia dumb phone as a daily driver

#126

Post by csdvrx »

L0in wrote: post #75
throwawaynay wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I use an app/domain blocker on my android phone, and I block social networks from /etc/hosts on my laptop, I also use the command "chattr +i /etc/hosts" to make it harder to unblock the social networks I blocked. Now the only social network I still use is Linkedin. But I also "waste" my time on other stuff now, so I don't know if it's better, the brain always find new ways to procrastinate I guess.

Can you explain the "chattr +i" this to me? I'm looking for something similar with website blocking

> I'm looking for something similar with website blocking

Just add them to /etc/host pointing to 127.0.0.1

Re: My first three months with a Nokia dumb phone as a daily driver

#127

Post by Freak_NL »

sneak wrote: post #125
Freak_NL wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I will have to buy one soon, because it is pretty much the only way we can establish a line of communication with other parents of my young son's peers at kindergarten (he's nearing 3). Not doing so would stunt his growth on an emotional level, because we would deprive him of things like play dates and such. Not due to malice on the part of other parents, but because not having WhatsApp (here in the Nethe…

We will never be free of WhatsApp if we continue caving and using the service, making it more valuable to others. Every time you cave and use Facebook spyware, you make it harder for the next person. Stop using tools that make the world worse. Tell your contacts to install Signal instead. You must be unreachable on WhatsApp, so that the utility of the app is not increased for others.

That's what I do currently, but when some other kid's parents are organising a birthday party I can of course ask them not to use WhatsApp, but then my kid will be the kid with the parents who want to make things hard for everyone.

If this means that I have to get WhatsApp just for those things, than I can hardly refuse without making my son a social recluse.

Re: My first three months with a Nokia dumb phone as a daily driver

#128

Post by Beltalowda »

sneak wrote: post #125
Freak_NL wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I will have to buy one soon, because it is pretty much the only way we can establish a line of communication with other parents of my young son's peers at kindergarten (he's nearing 3). Not doing so would stunt his growth on an emotional level, because we would deprive him of things like play dates and such. Not due to malice on the part of other parents, but because not having WhatsApp (here in the Nethe…

We will never be free of WhatsApp if we continue caving and using the service, making it more valuable to others. Every time you cave and use Facebook spyware, you make it harder for the next person. Stop using tools that make the world worse. Tell your contacts to install Signal instead. You must be unreachable on WhatsApp, so that the utility of the app is not increased for others.

Signal is just as smartphone-tied as WhatsApp. It's actually worse, as there is no web version and the desktop app is flaky. So there is no improvement here at all in this regard.

Re: My first three months with a Nokia dumb phone as a daily driver

#129

Post by sneak »

Beltalowda wrote: post #128
sneak wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We will never be free of WhatsApp if we continue caving and using the service, making it more valuable to others. Every time you cave and use Facebook spyware, you make it harder for the next person. Stop using tools that make the world worse. Tell your contacts to install Signal instead. You must be unreachable on WhatsApp, so that the utility of the app is not increased for others.

Signal is just as smartphone-tied as WhatsApp. It's actually worse, as there is no web version and the desktop app is flaky. So there is no improvement here at all in this regard.

This is hugely incorrect. Signal is private, WhatsApp is not.

Go read the app privacy labels if you don't believe me.

Re: My first three months with a Nokia dumb phone as a daily driver

#130

Post by sneak »

Freak_NL wrote: post #127
sneak wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We will never be free of WhatsApp if we continue caving and using the service, making it more valuable to others. Every time you cave and use Facebook spyware, you make it harder for the next person. Stop using tools that make the world worse. Tell your contacts to install Signal instead. You must be unreachable on WhatsApp, so that the utility of the app is not increased for others.

That's what I do currently, but when some other kid's parents are organising a birthday party I can of course ask them not to use WhatsApp, but then my kid will be the kid with the parents who want to make things hard for everyone. If this means that I have to get WhatsApp just for those things, than I can hardly refuse without making my son a social recluse.

No, you are the one parent who isn't making things hard for everyone. It's people demanding you and everyone else in society use Facebook spyware who are making things hard for everyone: not just your class, but all of the people of the world.

You don't make things better by making bad choices.

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