Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

cnx-software.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 259 posts

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#121

Post by thfuran »

bluedino wrote: post #112
jiggawatts wrote: post #80

Some people are saying that they don't feel the need for > 1 Gbps in a home network. As a counter-point, I'm regularly limited by 1 Gbps PHY limits. During the 2 years of the pandemic I've been working from home with gigabit Internet. Why gigabit? Because that's the "speed limit" of the Ethernet PHY in the fibre broadband box, and also my laptop's ethernet port. My laptop can write to disk at multiple GB per second,…

> Note that servers are 100 Gbps as standard now In what world?

In the world of unlimited budgets, where employees all spend their days pulling gigabits per second of egress from the cloud, apparently.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#122

Post by ClumsyPilot »

kortilla wrote: post #108
jiggawatts wrote: post #80

Some people are saying that they don't feel the need for > 1 Gbps in a home network. As a counter-point, I'm regularly limited by 1 Gbps PHY limits. During the 2 years of the pandemic I've been working from home with gigabit Internet. Why gigabit? Because that's the "speed limit" of the Ethernet PHY in the fibre broadband box, and also my laptop's ethernet port. My laptop can write to disk at multiple GB per second,…

A lot of that sounds pretty incredibly wasteful and I don’t think it should be something to strive for more of. Docker images are layered for a reason. If you’re having to download multi gigabyte docker layers multiple times, something has gone very wrong. Azure charges (like the other major cloud providers) by egress data. I feel bad for whoever is paying the bill for 20gbps going out. In general, people in ML shoul…

"You should be able to work from a stable coffee shop WiFi connection."

I think there are different philosophies, just like 'no comments allowed in code', this is a matter of judgement.

I saw 5 different corporations setup centralised workflow, and usually you end up with a massive cloud bill, incorrectly configured admin rights, under-resourced VDI, and a ticketing system that takes a week to resolve the smallest issue.

If we assume for the moment that data in question is not highly sensitive (for example public satellite imagery), there is nothing wrong with getting every dev a beefy workstation with 50 TB of storage and a 20-core CPU, and it's often even cheaper.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#123

Post by Damogran6 »

Jnr wrote: post #118
jiggawatts wrote: post #80

Some people are saying that they don't feel the need for > 1 Gbps in a home network. As a counter-point, I'm regularly limited by 1 Gbps PHY limits. During the 2 years of the pandemic I've been working from home with gigabit Internet. Why gigabit? Because that's the "speed limit" of the Ethernet PHY in the fibre broadband box, and also my laptop's ethernet port. My laptop can write to disk at multiple GB per second,…

For a moment I thought about setting up 10GbE at home, but then I realized there is no point yet because my external connection to internet is limited to 1 gigabit. The only use internally would be central storage server. But all the new NVMe SSD's are faster than 10 gigs, so my internal network would be the bottleneck. The next logical step would be upgrading to 100 gig network, but that is too expensive right now.…

What I found was that the bottleneck was often my home firewall. Plenty of bandwidth inside, plenty to the cable modem…but using a Cisco or Palo SOHO firewall of hand capability was more than I wanted to spend…sure I could have set up a VM environment and run a virtual firewall…but I didn’t really want to. I’d done that in the past and talking the wife through a safe VM environment cycle when away from home and something went wrong was…harder than telling her to power cycle a netgear product.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#124

Post by philjohn »

social_quotient wrote: post #66
sjagoe wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the ports in pairs at each location? Then it sounds like they did a Very Bad Thing and ran one cable per pair of ports; 100Mbps uses two pairs, so why use two cables when one cable has four pairs, right? :( I've seen that a lot in much older installations, but I'd expect better from 2015 construction. I'm busy retrofitting Ethernet in my house by pulling cat6 through the walls and pulling out the old cat3 phone c…

Curious why did you go with cat 6 and not 6a or 7? Thinking about doing similar but want to make sure I’m not missing something.

Cat Cat6a is a pain to retrofit as it's stiffer and thicker than Cat6 in most cases. It's also more expensive (less so than before, but the delta is still there)

If each run is <55m then Cat6 can still do 10Gbps.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#125

Post by thfuran »

buro9 wrote: post #36
martinald wrote: post #9

It's interesting to see just how slow faster ethernet standards have been. Feels like I've had gigabit ethernet at a pretty low cost for nearly 20 years now, but faster than that has been pretty esoteric outside of the datacentre. I guess there really isn't much demand for faster than gigabit speeds even now (outside of servers?)

Lots of reasons: 1. Consumer broadband speeds rarely exceed 1Gbps 2. 1Gbps Local network transfers are seldom slowed by the network (as large file work typically involves HDD still) 3. Where local network transfers are impeded by the network speed the transferring itself isn't a frequent enough and blocking thing that people feel they need to fix it... they just go make a cup of tea once or twice a day 4. There are a…

I think 1gbps is more limiting now in consumer space than 100 Mbps was back when gigabit started becoming widespread.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#126

Post by formerly_proven »

emteycz wrote: post #94
ninkendo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see a use case for 10gb Ethernet in your home network in your post, unless I’m missing something? It sounds like your ISP is limited to 1gbps and all your use cases seem to be bottlenecked by it. Do you have home servers you forgot to mention that you’re uploading docker images to, and those could benefit from 10gb Ethernet? (For me, I use gigabit Ethernet everywhere at home but sometimes need to transfer lar…

More devices used at once? If I am downloading 1 Gb/s from the internet, and meanwhile one of my housemates want to look at a movie from our NAS, the other one wants to backup 100 GB of photos to the same NAS - then 1 Gb/s home network is not enough.

I'm not arguing against faster networks, but scenarios like "one fast download makes video streams buffer" can be solved by using better routing algorithms (CAKE for example) instead of making the pipe so wide that it'll never be close to full. One of these is a configuration flag that you can flip today and costs nothing, the other means upgrading infrastructure.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#127

Post by rglullis »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #122
kortilla wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of that sounds pretty incredibly wasteful and I don’t think it should be something to strive for more of. Docker images are layered for a reason. If you’re having to download multi gigabyte docker layers multiple times, something has gone very wrong. Azure charges (like the other major cloud providers) by egress data. I feel bad for whoever is paying the bill for 20gbps going out. In general, people in ML shoul…

"You should be able to work from a stable coffee shop WiFi connection." I think there are different philosophies, just like 'no comments allowed in code', this is a matter of judgement. I saw 5 different corporations setup centralised workflow, and usually you end up with a massive cloud bill, incorrectly configured admin rights, under-resourced VDI, and a ticketing system that takes a week to resolve the smallest is…

Then again, if it is public (or not-sensitive) data, why make it part of your infra?

If you are working with ML and have public datasets, just use the original source. Make a public mirror if you want to collaborate. Make it accessible via BitTorrent. You can bet that the amount of savings you will get from AWS will be enough to give each dev a NAS with a few tens of TB, which then they can even then use to host/mirror the public data by themselves.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#129

Post by DannyBee »

martinald wrote: post #9

It's interesting to see just how slow faster ethernet standards have been. Feels like I've had gigabit ethernet at a pretty low cost for nearly 20 years now, but faster than that has been pretty esoteric outside of the datacentre. I guess there really isn't much demand for faster than gigabit speeds even now (outside of servers?)

The main thing, i think, is that outside of DAC, most faster speeds are used over fiber.

The cabling starts to become an issue otherwise. It's also hot and power hungry over copper.

Having gotten into the home fiber side of it for various reasons, it's clear on the fiber side there is plenty of innovation/cost lowering/etc.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#130

Post by DannyBee »

erik wrote: post #84
buro9 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of reasons: 1. Consumer broadband speeds rarely exceed 1Gbps 2. 1Gbps Local network transfers are seldom slowed by the network (as large file work typically involves HDD still) 3. Where local network transfers are impeded by the network speed the transferring itself isn't a frequent enough and blocking thing that people feel they need to fix it... they just go make a cup of tea once or twice a day 4. There are a…

Another factor: data centres moved to fiber. And fiber is less physically robust and not great for desktop connections or plugging in to a laptop. 10GBASE-T exists, but it turns out pushing 10gbit/s over 100m of twisted pair requires chips that are hot and power hungry. Again, not great for desktops or laptops. And because it’s not used in data centres, there are no economies of scale or trickle down effects. Gigabit…

This is, IMHO, completely right, though I think at this point the physical robust issue is moot.

It's easy enough to get G.657.B3/G.657.A3 cables, and you can wrap them repeatedly around a pencil and they are fine.

Also, most consumers would not notice the bend attenuation anymore becuase they aren't trying to get 10km out of them :)

Post reply on HN