More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years • Hacker News Board

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#121

Post by gr1zzlybe4r » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:00 PM UTC

The only reason you should go to college if you're not getting a pre-professional degree is to network.

I made the mistake of thinking that the purpose was to get what is essentially a certificate stating that you went to a good school and got good grades.

I do think it was a net positive overall, but in reality I think I would've done just the same by going to school and networking, partying my ass off for 4 years, and then figuring it out after.

If you can do those things without going to college then it's a no brainer _not_ to go.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#122

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

rkk3 wrote: post #79

mfer wrote: post #12

US colleges have many students from foreign countries on visas. I wonder what the impact of the pandemic is on that segment of the student population. This isn't likely to hit community colleges, which the article touches on. Just trying to point out that digging deeper might show some interesting details.

> US colleges have many students from foreign countries on visas. I wonder what the impact of the pandemic is on that segment of the student population. The elephant in the room is that those foreign students are also the ones paying sticker price and subsidizing college for the other students, even at public schools.

[deleted]

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#123

Post by disambiguation » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #81

disambiguation wrote: post #27

Less than 3k kids under the age of 24 have died from covid since the start of the pandemic [0] yet they have some how wound up with the harshest restrictions. These kids will never get these years back. What a disgrace. [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex...

I'm trying to imagine some other cause of death where 3000 over a couple years is regarded as acceptable. I think covid has broken people's brains, because we have gone to war, spent trillions, and sacrificed the lives of thousands of people in the US for about that size of human loss, within recent memory.

Covid is a one time risk. Overtime the average risk of death goes to zero.

People's brains were already broken. People are bad at statistical risk.

People are afraid of flying despite driving be much more dangerous.

https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa-cause-of-death-by-ag...

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/leading_causes_of_dea...

Under the age of 24, vehicle fatalities, suicide, and homicide lead in >3k deaths each year.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/fentanyl-overdoses-leading-cause-...

Meanwhile, 18-45 79k have died from fentanyl overdoses in the past 2 years vs. ~50k covid deaths in that time frame.

You don't need to imagine 3k deaths being acceptable, it's in the data for all to see.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#124

Post by mmmmkay » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

because it's a joke lol

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#125

Post by noasaservice » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

1. School loans are not dismissable in bankruptcy. This is only shared with criminal monetary punishments.

2. Interest is charged, which is abhorrent at any rate. Especially the 8%.

3. PPP "loans" to the tune of almost 1t$.. which were forgiven. Just run a few sham job ads for software engineers at 10$/hr and NobOdy wAnTS tO wOrk!

4. University doesn't really provide job skills. They allude to, but then say they dont.

5. Jobs say they need a degree, but that's primarily due to https://www.naacpldf.org/case-issue/griggs-v-duke-power-co/ and easier to exclude black people with a 'degree'.

6. Most programs do NOT need expensive schools, labs, etc. Non-lab based classes can easily get by online.

7. School costs are stupid, because "Its what the market will bear"

8. Even public higher ed schools are stupid priced, because the public aspect has been surely ripped away from them.

9. Even if you DO go, you're guaranteed only one thing: undismissable debt. I failed out due to medical reasons. I have the debt, and no degree to show for it.

As a millenial, higher ed is a bad bargain. And if you're younger, DO NOT LET HIGH SCHOOL threaten you with "if you dont go to school you will work as a grocery bagger for the rest of your life". Teach yourself IT. Get into an area, double down, learn it inside and out. Find a few hot tech areas. Learn them well. And off you go.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#126

Post by samarama » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

sylens wrote: post #51

ChicagoDave wrote: post #28

I have 3 college-aged kids and one nearly there. Their universal concern is the cost. It has become prohibitive. Colleges assumed the trend of charging $25k to $50k per year would be sustainable. They were dead wrong, especially given the horrendously predatory loans backed by the government and barred from bankruptcy. If we fix the college financial system, enrollment would likely skyrocket.

Yes, it's quite clearly this. Millennials have been out there for nearly a decade yelling on social media about how ridiculous their student loans are. Kids on the precipice of college have started paying attention. Combine that with the restrictions for Covid, and you have a lot of kids who don't think that taking on tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of dollars in debt is worth it for some Zoom classe…

Are student loans really such an issue?

85% of graduates have less than $50,000 in student loans. Paid off over 20 years, that’s really not much. https://www.rclco.com/wp-content/uploads/advisory-student-de...

Additionally, those that have much higher loans are usually medical students who make $200,000/year at the entry level.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#127

Post by ChicagoDave » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

ars wrote: post #47

ChicagoDave wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like that number isn't horrendous in and of itself, but let's not forget that many young adults that have had Covid likely gave it to someone vulnerable as well. It's not just who dies directly from Covid. It's also the spread of it to vulnerable populations. It boggles the mind that this still has to be repeated. How many 22 year olds coming back from spring break will kill one of their parents or grandparents?

That's what the vaccine is for. And if you're really concerned about spring break, then add all these restrictions 2 weeks before spring break.

Do you not understand “vulnerable population”?

There are actually people that the vaccines won’t help. They are immunocompromised. They can only be protected by high vaccination rates and zero exposure to Covid.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#128

Post by taylodl » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:03 PM UTC

rossdavidh wrote: post #53

As the father of a 16-year old, I can say that the current generation of teenagers has heard a lot more about the issues of college debt than previous generations did. Partly because it's a lot higher, partly because even if newsmedia doesn't report on it, there are enough adults out there saddled with it that they just hear about it from a relative or friend. It used to be a no-brainer; you go to college if you can.…

No. Things are just going back to the way they used to be: higher education is for the elites. Once upon a time we understood that higher education was important for all and having a well-educated public was good for the Republic. Now that view no longer holds - the politicians have learned that their flim-flam doesn't work as well on a well-educated public and so they've been making cuts to higher education for the past 20 years. We're just now getting to the point where the cuts are having a serious impact to the middle class being able to afford college. Don't worry though - the elites will be just fine.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#129

Post by sarchertech » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:03 PM UTC

ChicagoDave wrote: post #28

I have 3 college-aged kids and one nearly there. Their universal concern is the cost. It has become prohibitive. Colleges assumed the trend of charging $25k to $50k per year would be sustainable. They were dead wrong, especially given the horrendously predatory loans backed by the government and barred from bankruptcy. If we fix the college financial system, enrollment would likely skyrocket.

>horrendously predatory loans backed by the government

What's predatory about public loans. They all qualify for income based repayment, which means you'll never pay more than 10% of your disposable income (any income over 1.5x the federal poverty level). If you make below that amount, you'll never be required to pay back anything. And they are cancelled after 20 years.

Theoretically you'd owe tax on cancelled debt, but only up to the point of solvency. And a borrower who hasn't made enough income to pay back a student loan after 20 years probably isn't solvent, so won't pay anything. This also assumes that as more and more people reach this point, there isn't demand for congress to change the tax code.

Public loans make up about 92% of all student loan debt as well, so the vast majority of loans are going to qualify.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#130

Post by HWR_14 » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:04 PM UTC

bagacrap wrote: post #71

ChicagoDave wrote: post #28

I have 3 college-aged kids and one nearly there. Their universal concern is the cost. It has become prohibitive. Colleges assumed the trend of charging $25k to $50k per year would be sustainable. They were dead wrong, especially given the horrendously predatory loans backed by the government and barred from bankruptcy. If we fix the college financial system, enrollment would likely skyrocket.

The loans are exactly why the colleges were able to continue jacking up the prices. As with homes, people will pay as much as institutions are willing to loan them. In both cases the currently low interest rates allow the loan principal to be much higher (given that folks calculate cost based on recurring payments). If you remove the student loan system then tuition would become cheaper. However that does unfairly im…

It's not just loans, it's COVID.

If I were college-age and I were planning on going to college I would certainly do one of two things. I would postpone college until the COVID issues died down -or- I would use the fewer applicants to get into a more prestigious school banking on a better 3 year experience (out of 4) starting in the fall of 2022 and more impressive degree going forward. Either way, I can imagine admittance numbers falling off.