I worked somewhere where I quit and they asked me if I wanted zero notice period, I said yes to get the fuck out and his eyes lit up at the prospect of saving a weeks salary. He told me he’d be a good reference. He gave me a really bad one. Take what you will from that but yeah quitting a job is as game theoretical as any other aspect of employment.
How to quit like a boss
121–130 of 171 posts
Re: How to quit like a boss
#122> Quitting should never be a surprise for your boss I get the spirit of this. But someone whos in tech on a visa, this is absolutely the worse advice. The fear or retaliation is real, especially in bigger firms where your manager has a lot of say. The moment higher ups have the slightest inkling that you're looking for other jobs, you'll soon get pushed out.
Oh, I hadn't considered role-tied visas… that's a good point. Let me add a couple of "excepts" in there. "Never" is too absolute.
Please do your research on workplace retaliation
Re: How to quit like a boss
#123This post is filled with bad and naive advice. I have thankfully worked in mostly rational companies and been able to be honest with managers about what is or isn't working. At my last job though I spent more than a year saying repeatedly that I wasn't happy with my project work and that I wanted more pay. Annual review rolls around and they didn't fix it. I had a new job offer in a month and when I put in my notice…
Yeah, you need to do what's best for your own career. Don't feel bad walking away for a better opportunity. Unless it's a very small company. I promise your multi billion dollar corporation is going to be just fine without you. Believing otherwise is ego.
Re: How to quit like a boss
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think we might have crossed wires here… The section you're referring to is titled "Avoid giving too much notice " and basically gives five reasons for why 10 months was a harmfully-long notice period. The advice is to give much less notice than that.
I think you may have missed the part in my original comment where I said He even says that it was bad for both sides! . Respectfully, my point was that the way the author (you?) left that company reads like it was a train wreck. To a level that I wouldn't look to the author for any advice on how to leave a company. And what was the advice? Don't sabotage the company and don't give 10 months notice? If ten thousand pe…
Thankfully, it wasn't a train wreck!
But yes, there were certainly some things I would have done differently.
For me, I tend to learn more from my or someone else's mistakes than from when something went swimmingly – the post is an attempt to capture some of those.
Your last paragraph strawmans me… but yes, two of my points are related to what you mention. Don't sabotage your team and don't give too much notice – I've seen several people do one or the other of these.
Re: How to quit like a boss
#125Ten months notice - Wow, that is WAY too much. If anything that's a strong indication that you or your company failed completely at your duties _prior_ to your resignation. A "professional" would never let themselves or their company be in such a position of utter dependence in the first place. Two weeks notice should always be sufficient for both parties. FWIW I gave 5 weeks notice at a job a decade ago and immediat…
Agree, way too long!
I gave that much of a heads-up of my leaving (not a formal resignation, as it happens) for a few reasons including:
1. It's a C-level replacement, which takes _months_
2. I cared deeply (and still do) about my team and the company mission, and wanted them to succeed: "the more notice the better" seemed right to me (it wasn't)
3. My career plans were to move into a new field which would require various courses, lots of reading, conferences, etc. – although I knew I was leaving, I hadn't even started speaking to potential next employers or investors when I told my CEO I was leaving
Putting all of that together is how I ended up with the 10 month blunder, but the post is less against 10 month notice periods, and more for matching the notice period to your handover, whatever that would be.
I feel your pain on working out those 5 weeks you mention! Awkward for everyone involved.
Re: How to quit like a boss
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could not agree more. The company is not, can not, and will not ever be loyal to you. Ever. They will fire you, lay you off, relieve you of duty instantly for any reason or no reason at all. They've lobbied for laws to do exactly that (in the US anyway). And they will keep information asymmetrical in their favor. No. Matter. What. In the long run they will be dishonest with you, they will lie to your face, and they w…
I agree with the parent but I disagree with you. I am a manager in a large tech company and we care about our employees. We will not fire/lay them off/relieve them of their duty for any reason or not reason. We treat them as we expect to be treated. We will support them if they have some unusual circumstances. We do this because it is the right thing to do, and because it makes business sense. These are not mutually…
I hear you, and what I wrote was cynical, because it's safer that way. I totally respect that you treat people like they want to be treated, and that you want to treat people with dignity. That's what we all hope for. You sound like a good boss. That's fantastic.
But, as a small counterpoint, you say: >Is that the same as saying there's no situation where people will be laid off or let go? No. But it would happen for a good reason.
This is what I mean. The company has to do what is right for the company. And ultimately, it's employee be damned no matter how good, or loved or respected they are. You'll still be let go, and your life may go into disarray as a result. THe manager may lose sleep, but that won't stop it from happening. It also doesn't mean the company will hire you back, support you, or even give you a package on the way out other than a box to hold your personal belongings. It's gotta be that way.
All I'm saying, is that the employee has to know this, get it, and be willing to play the same game by the same rules. We're often taught to think that we owe the company or our former coworkers something, when we don't. If that means being less than truthful in an exit interview for example, or not sharing info with my manager so that I can make a move, then so be it. Employees have to do what's in their own best interest first.
I think many workers don't think this way and stay in dead-end, abusive, no-win situations out of a sense of loyalty that ultimately, won't and cannot be returned.
People two levels above me never asked my permission to lay me off. That's for sure.
Re: How to quit like a boss
#127There's a typo in the article's headline. It should read: "How Your Boss Would Like You to Quit" I've always found the sociology of work fascinating, and how it can vary so much from industry to industry. When I read statements like: > Your team trusted you and depended on you. It’s unethical to screw them over because they’re not paying you any more. I wonder what their world view is, and why they think you're screw…
Sort of. I think everyone should read "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie. I think in any interaction, if you want to maximize your success, you have to approach it from the frame of reference of the person you are talking to. Put yourself in their shoes, and think about what they care about, what they value, and then whatever you want to do, express it to them with reference to their perspecti…
The thing about "How to win friends..." that isn't explicitly stated is that you are doing the things recommended in the book because you WANT something from them. You want their friendship, so you put yourself in their shoes to help achieve that.
In the case of quitting your job, I'm not sure it applies since what you really want to do is to leave. If you have a good relationship with your team and company, by all means be generous with your time. Otherwise, I don't think you'll get much value out of being overly considerate of your old company.
Re: How to quit like a boss
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed, I was thinking where are these rational managers where you can discuss things openly. It seems the world of management is full of petty narcissistic control freaks.
It seems the world of management is full of petty narcissistic control freaks. It can sure seem that way -- and no doubt is that way, in certain situations. More often I find they're simply ... scared. Of how they'll be evaluated, or what will happen if they make a mistake (or heavens, let someone below them make a mistake). Or of simply being "found out" (that they're not nearly as experienced or as sage in their ad…
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Re: How to quit like a boss
#129This post is filled with bad and naive advice. I have thankfully worked in mostly rational companies and been able to be honest with managers about what is or isn't working. At my last job though I spent more than a year saying repeatedly that I wasn't happy with my project work and that I wanted more pay. Annual review rolls around and they didn't fix it. I had a new job offer in a month and when I put in my notice…
> been able to be honest with managers about what is or isn't working.
How often do you fellow HNers disagree with management? Is it that common? I think it's probably the worst part of "working for a living".
Re: How to quit like a boss
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t think it’s good advice even for someone working in a rational environment. The part about giving ten months notice is terrible. He even says that it was bad for both sides! He was mentally checked out for months and not coming up with long term solutions because he knew he was out of there. Not my supposition - he literally says that. My past three jobs have all lasted at least a decade. I just don’t agree wi…
I think we might have crossed wires here… The section you're referring to is titled "Avoid giving too much notice " and basically gives five reasons for why 10 months was a harmfully-long notice period. The advice is to give much less notice than that.
Do the old scarface quits his job...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0aF9kSLpeY