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Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

psyche.co

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Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't Godwinning when an actual German Nazi is involved.

Its a goddamn name. What are we cancelling Heidegger next? Burn copies of Being and Time?

Heidegger was """cancelled""" back in his time, and he should remain so.

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#122
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article also argues that severity of autism doesn't really make sense.

Alright, well I can't agree to that part. It all depends on your goals and some people are less able to accomplish their own goals than others due to those traits from the spectrum. There's no need for conceiving of utility to others to speak of grades of functionality.

Sure, but the point is that the thing that is ‘severe’ isn’t ‘autism’. An autistic person can be severely disabled, but the disability is itself a trait they only some autistic people have, so it doesn’t make sense to call the disability ‘autism’.

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#123

It takes a while to get to the point, but this is what the page is about: As we explained in a recent review paper, researchers have repeatedly found evidence that Autistic individuals are, on average, more consistent, less biased, and more rational than non-autistic individuals in a variety of contexts. Specifically, many Autistic people seem to be less susceptible to cognitive biases, and therefore better able to m…

Yeah, I suspect the fact that Autism reduces a person's ability to relate emotionally and socially to themselves and others allows them to dedicate more brain power to thinking rationally. In a mild enough case, with a supportive tribe, they could be a useful advisor. No autistic members = tribe has trouble making good collective decisions. Too many autistic members = tribe can't collaborate. That's just my armchair…

> I suspect the fact that Autism reduces a person's ability to relate emotionally and socially to themselves and others

This is not a fact. It’s a now discredited stereotype.

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#124

It's good to see appreciation of different neurotypes for their strengths. Many people with ASD put a lot of time and effort into learning and altering their natural behavior in order to better understand and interact in a way that is perceived as normal by nerutotypical people. I'm hopeful the inverse will happen more over time as well, neurotypicals putting effort into learning and adjusting their own behavior to b…

One of my best friends is autistic. He's definitely a weirdo at times (I mean that in a positive way, for instance he likes old movies and watches them constantly, but when he says a movie is good he has never been wrong) but he's a good guy, would never betray anyone and is always social and fun to be around as long as it is inside of his comfort zone.

> for instance he likes old movies and watches them constantly, but when he says a movie is good he has never been wrong) but he's a good guy

You make it sound as if liking old movies should be cause for suspicion!

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#125

It takes a while to get to the point, but this is what the page is about: As we explained in a recent review paper, researchers have repeatedly found evidence that Autistic individuals are, on average, more consistent, less biased, and more rational than non-autistic individuals in a variety of contexts. Specifically, many Autistic people seem to be less susceptible to cognitive biases, and therefore better able to m…

Hasn't this been the sterotype of autism for a long time? What's the preconcieved idea they are challenging?

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#126
post #115

"Autistic individuals are, on average, more consistent, less biased, and more rational than non-autistic individuals in a variety of contexts. (We use identity-first language, eg, ‘Autistic people’, as it is preferred by many people on the autism spectrum.)" Hmmm. What are they implying by that parenthetical comment placement?

In psychology and social services there is a push to use terms like “person with Autism” or “person with autistic traits” as opposed to “autistic person” as many people seem to enjoy not being primarily labeled by something that only makes up a small part of their personality and an even smaller part of their personhood. Think of it like primitive vs value types in Java. ‘int a = 7; Integer b = 7’ “a” is 7, but “b” j…

The point here is that autistic people who prefer this term don’t think it has anything to do with mental health or disease, and do think it’s a fundamental aspect of who they are, which can’t be separated.

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#127
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For me, it only "clicked" once I understood that gender and sexuality are completely arbitrary and subjective social constructs that try to describe a whole spectrum of multidimensional behaviors and (potentially repressed) feelings, so there's little point in trying to objectively categorize them - it's all about the subjective impression of the person themself" Sex is a fundamental property of living organisms; it…

Sex and gender are different things. Neither is easily defined in a strict unambiguous manner, despite what we might be taught in high school biology. To be clear, this isn’t a political view point, it’s a scientific view point, there’s no singularly accepted way of defining sex in human. Unfortunately nature has this amazing ability to conjure up exceptions to every seemingly reasonable definition of male/female, an…

Sex is almost always unambiguously defined, despite there being exceptions. There is no problem with having biological categories. It is not controversial in science that humans are a sexually dimorphic species.

To claim otherwise is definitely political.

Gender is entirely more complex social phenomenon and indeed isn’t directly related to sexual dimorphism, and evolving gender politics are totally legitimate.

Pretending humans aren’t sexually dimorphic isn’t.

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#128

It takes a while to get to the point, but this is what the page is about: As we explained in a recent review paper, researchers have repeatedly found evidence that Autistic individuals are, on average, more consistent, less biased, and more rational than non-autistic individuals in a variety of contexts. Specifically, many Autistic people seem to be less susceptible to cognitive biases, and therefore better able to m…

>Interesting if true; it could indicate that at least mild Autism is a beneficial adaptation.

This assumes that being less rational (and e.g. more passionate, optimistic, etc.) is not more beneficial, which might very well be the case.

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#129

It's good to see appreciation of different neurotypes for their strengths. Many people with ASD put a lot of time and effort into learning and altering their natural behavior in order to better understand and interact in a way that is perceived as normal by nerutotypical people. I'm hopeful the inverse will happen more over time as well, neurotypicals putting effort into learning and adjusting their own behavior to b…

One of my best friends is autistic. He's definitely a weirdo at times (I mean that in a positive way, for instance he likes old movies and watches them constantly, but when he says a movie is good he has never been wrong) but he's a good guy, would never betray anyone and is always social and fun to be around as long as it is inside of his comfort zone.

>but when he says a movie is good he has never been wrong

I have a crazy anecdote like that too. My severely (barely verbal, had his own barely intelligible language) step brother would watch like a grand total of two movies on repeat. So many times that for a decade afterward you could say a single line from either movie, and I could finish the script for you.

Those two movies? Who Framed Roger Rabbit and Willow.

After a couple of decades of a break from being forced to watch them I finally did, and they're exemplary.

WFRR is objectively incredible: https://medium.com/labjorfaap/who-framed-roger-rabbit-bumpin... as a production, and as work of art.

And Willow is one of the best fantasy epics ever made, IMHO.

He was maybe ~6 when WFRR came out on VHS could already spot a good movie. He's probably still mentally a poorly functioning 6 despite being 36 now, but there's a lot more to him than his obsession with Christmas. :)

I feel like in the years to come we're going to learn a lot from and benefit greatly from autistic folks. (I also might be one.)

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#130
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weren't they just saying that the spectrum isn't a measure of severity, not that one can't talk about severity separately.

The article also argues that severity of autism doesn't really make sense.

Well, if it leaves one unable to function effectively in society, or seriously hampered in that, it does make sense to differentiate from a less strong case.
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