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Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

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Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#121

Post by dsr_ »

harha wrote: post #100
pantalaimon wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> after 5 years it's due to be replaced anyway Are people really replacing their home network infrastructure every 5 years?

The best move is to add cables where possible. I’ve got a slightly upper scale consumer mesh network (with Ethernet backhaul) for anything that moves, everything else is connected via cables (have to admit that I only had to draw one cable from the fiber outlet to the other side of the room where an Ethernet outlet was ready) and gigabit switches, both of them at a very low cost. I get almost the same speed and laten…

Very much agreed.

If a network-attached device is always in one place and it has an ethernet port, it has a cable.

If it's always in one place and it doesn't have an ethernet port, there's a cable to the wireless point in that room or the next.

5-port gigabit switches are about $20 each. A 12-port gigabit switch anchors the whole thing. None of them take configuration.

This is harder but not impossible for people who live in apartments; white cable run along the edge of the ceiling or along the foot of the wall is a good bet.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#122

Post by m4rtink »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #64
jeffbee wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe.. OnHub has a command-and-control network in the cloud, with which you interact using the Home (formerly: Wifi) app on your mobile. I guess they are ending support for OnHub control protocols in the cloud. So you'd need to replace the software in the router such that it could be controlled some other way.

Right; personally I'd be quite happy if the EOL process was "here's all the needed source code to build a kernel and trivial userland, and steps to build and flash a firmware image that boots a busybox shell but doesn't have our management binaries" and then let the community do whatever they want (since that's basically what you want in order to repurpose the thing or build OpenWRT for it).

They should already provide sources for all the GPL licensed bits to be compliant - build scripts and bootloader keys are usually the biggest problem.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#123

Post by commoner »

jeffbee wrote: post #24

Abstractly bogus, but on a rational analysis my TP-Link OnHub has already lasted wayyyyyyy longer than any other access point I've ever owned. Its predecessor, an ASUS RT-N66U, lasted barely two years.

The Asus RT-N66U was released on ‎December 22, 2011 according to Amazon,[1] and the last official firmware update was on June 18, 2020.[2] That's 8.5 years of support (assuming no future updates) compared to the OnHub's 7-7.5 years.

More importantly, the Asus RT-N66U is still fully functional and still supported on the Asus Router mobile app.[3] Unlike OnHub, Asus routers that run on non-Google firmware have a web interface so the network settings will continue to be adjustable even after app support ends.

Older Asus routers, including the RT-N66U, tend to be supported by open source firmware like DD-WRT.[4] OnHub is not.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006QB1RPY

[2] https://www.asus.com/supportonly/rtn66u_(verb1)/HelpDesk_Dow...

[3] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.asus.aihom...

[4] https://forum.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Supported_devices#As...

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#124

Post by Dayshine »

Does anybody know if Google will shut down all your accounts in retaliation if you try to enforce consumer rights laws on them?

In this case I'm thinking about the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (UK) which has a 7 year time limit for goods not fit for purpose (which a router that only lasted 2 years definitely counts as).

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#126

Post by rpdillon »

tw04 wrote: post #72
zmj wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably will. The OnHub has performed substantially better than the other consumer wireless routers I've used, and after 5 years it's due to be replaced anyway. Might as well take the discount.

I would suggest taking a look at synology. The 2600ac is going on 6 years old and about to get the latest feature release (1.3) with no immediate plans to eol it. And unlike Google they have a long history of LTS.

This is precisely what I did. My OnHub was having issues about 18 months ago, so I did some research. I was mostly interested in getting a browser-based interface back, push security updates from the vendor, and buying from a company that had a good track record of treating customers well and supporting their products. I picked up the Synology and have been very impressed. It got my family through the pandemic scenario of four simultaneous video conference streams with 30+ participants each with flying colors. This is my third Synology product, and I have an extremely high opinion of them. The other two products are NAS products, and both have been just as bulletproof for me.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#127

Post by diamondo25 »

wtallis wrote: post #78
admax88qqq wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure people said the same thing about 802.11ac when everyone was on n, or n when everyone was on g. Faster is always better. New 802.11ax also improves contention between devices.

At the moment, I would definitely choose an older 802.11ac device with mature open-source drivers over any 802.11ax device. Especially since last I checked, the only affordable 802.11ax routers were limited to 2T2R, so they would be a step backwards in peak throughout for some client devices.

Latency is a thing, and newer networks have lower latency or are affected by other clients being slower (eg MIMO and improved channeling), though other ethernet devices can still have a big effect (eg remote server latency, dns latency, retransmissions).

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#128

Post by waych »

ineedasername wrote: post #110
waych wrote: post #105

Doesn't surprise me. Google has trouble planning for anything longer than 1-2 OKR cycles, which nowadays means 6-12 months (previously 3-6 months). Sustainability planning and long term support just aren't in their wheelhouse as a result. In fact, anything long term planning there is a bit of a farce, including headcount planning done yearly.

The crazy thing is that they don't even need to actually support a 6 year old product: you're not getting much in the way of updates from a random netgear router that old. But Netgear isn't going to brick your device so you can't make changes and reconfigure it. All google has to do it not block it in the Home app.

The problem is that, as a product, it's just not built to be sustainable with zero effort.

The phone apps end up having to keep up with the underlying android+ios stacks' ever changing details, but even worse are the cloud services that help make the app -> router connection seamless, with the need to keep up with the ever-ongoing churn required to run binaries on Google's servers (aka "in Production").

To give an idea of how much churn is required to run binaries "in Production", there is a 6 month build horizon enforced across the company to ensure that all teams keep up with the underlying churn (changes to security, rpc, filesystems, monitoring, libc, etc). Running binaries older than that is verboten. The reasoning is that teams building the underlying components would never get a chance to upgrade / turndown down-versions/ down-compatibility.

Supporting these products means requiring staffing the role of keeping these services running from both dev+ops perspectives.

It sounds crazy but the system is designed to build "at scale" rather than to be built "sustainably". Dealing with this ever ongoing churn is the typical life of a Google engineer building "in prod". The model works well with a healthy CI/CD (albeit still a waste of time to deal with mandated churn), but falls apart quickly when staffing is removed.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#129

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

gruez wrote: post #71
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, I'd have to do a TCO analysis; if they give you 40% off, and you just assume it'll die after X years but be fully supported for that time and then you upgrade to a faster unit with next-gen wifi or whatever, it could still work out to be a good deal. Like... not my cup of tea (TCO is even nicer when the unit's lifespan is indefinite), but it's a plausible tradeoff.

>and then you upgrade to a faster unit with next-gen wifi or whatever Do people actually need next-gen wifi? My impression is that 99.9+% of people would be well served by a mid-range 802.11ac router (eg. AC1750[1]) from years ago, because the most bandwidth intensive thing they do is watch 4k netflix (~25 Mb/s). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ac-2013

The question isn't whether people need it, question is whether people were going to use it as a reason for upgrading anyways

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#130

Post by reaperducer »

whatever1 wrote: post #67

Btw Onhub does not even have a browser accessible interface like every router has. The only way to manage it is through the app (that they will decommission). Reviewers and experts called this out at the time, but Google reassured that onhub will not face any issues since they will commit to long term support of the device. As a testament to that they highlighted the overspecification of the device (it had enormous r…

Onhub does not even have a browser accessible interface like every router has

I know some people who didn't jump onto Airports because of this. If this is important to you, avoid Amazon's eero line, as well.

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