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Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

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Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#121

Post by actually_a_dog »

aeternum wrote: post #104
nicoco wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point. With a 6% inflation, a 6% raise means the employees are worth the same as before , not more.

Depends on whether we're talking about real or nominal wages. Regardless, my main point is that most people must switch jobs to see the increase. Wages grew 6.6% for job switchers so it is keeping up with inflation. IT and professional services was 10.5%+ but again only for job switchers. https://www.valuepenguin.com/news/ADP-wage-growth-report

So, the economically rational thing for everyone to do is to engage in this gigantic game of musical chairs, if they care about the number at the bottom of their paystub? That's silly, and a great way to throw away a lot of specialized domain knowledge.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#122

Post by californical »

lettergram wrote: post #87
onion2k wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the other side, whenever a member of my team has come to me asking to match an offer I've always refused and wished them well in their new role. If someone is unhappy enough to start job hunting rather than talking to me then it's a clear sign that they'll leave soon regardless of any pay rise. Psychologically, every pay increase makes someone happy for a short time, and then they get used to it and they start t…

Interesting, as a manager I encourage my team to apply and bring me other offers. I will even help with some minor prep. If they come to me with a better offer I’ll take it to my leadership and show their worth. If they fail, they know I cared enough to assist and trust me and are happy for their job. If they succeed they get a raise, but are more likely to stay and work harder knowing they can trust me and can colla…

I have a manager with a similar attitude to you and I have to say — thanks for being that way. I don’t even care to go get other offers. I get double-digit raises annually and have an amazing team. As long as this manager is around, I feel happy about my work. You sound just as great! :)

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#123

Post by morgante »

simonh wrote: post #103
onion2k wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the other side, whenever a member of my team has come to me asking to match an offer I've always refused and wished them well in their new role. If someone is unhappy enough to start job hunting rather than talking to me then it's a clear sign that they'll leave soon regardless of any pay rise. Psychologically, every pay increase makes someone happy for a short time, and then they get used to it and they start t…

You’re taking a lot of flak for this so I’ll try and back you up a bit. Not all workers are equivalent, and not all roles that seem the same even in the same team, actually are. Let’s say we have a team of 10 people, each with slightly different experience and skills. One of them finds another job with higher pay and asks for it to be matched. What do you do? It’s quite possible this other role actually matches their…

You're starting from the false assumption that everyone on the team is paid the same.

It's not like everyone performs at the same level or gets the same pay in almost any team I've seen.

If someone gets a job offer, you should consider it a new data point. Some teams don't aim to retain top talent and if that's the case absolutely encourage them to move on. But if you want a high-performing team, you need to pay top of market and a job offer is new signal about the market price.

> Probably not, but now you’ve upped the going rate for a member of your team. They will want the same.

I have never once wanted to be paid the same as everyone on my team. Some people are more experienced than me and should be paid more. Others are less skilled and should be paid less.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#124

Post by turbinerneiter »

vlunkr wrote: post #116
silisili wrote: post #58

As someone who does OK, but lives in reality (not the bay area), I feel a revolution coming. I hope it's not a violent one, but who knows at this point. Hopefully it's just a politician with big policy changes. People feel completely disenfranchised. You keep hanging housing over their head but just out of reach like some baby toy, then inflation spikes everything else. What's the point of working even? I don't know…

I don't know, if you hang out in certain parts of the internet, it feels like a revolution is coming, but it reality Bernie still can't win the primaries, so I don't think the numbers are actually there. But I also won't be surprised if the next generation of voters is more socialist-leaning.

The revolution will not come from the left. The "left" elites have forgotten the people, and the left in general is talking more about identity issues than class issues.

The revolution will be more Trump than Bernie. Like in the early 1900, where more revolutions where fascist than communist.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#125

Post by olliej »

Worker pay hasn't been keeping track with inflation for decades - this isn't new. Politicians are only concerned now because it is impacting the cash (and equivalent) banks of the super rich.

In the US at least it's fairly telling that wages and similar for normal people aren't legally tied to any real measurement and require explicit corrections by lawmakers, whereas everything that benefits law makers and their donors is tied to inflation.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#126

Post by neuroma »

nicoco wrote: post #56
aeternum wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's foolish to raise by 6% across the whole company when most employees are too lazy to interview elsewhere. Whether or not employees are actually worth 6% more they should not have a problem finding a new job in this market (that will pay 6% more).

I think you're missing the point. With a 6% inflation, a 6% raise means the employees are worth the same as before , not more.

It's worse. Many people could see their fractional tax burden increasing as their nominal wage rises and crosses higher tax bandings. Inflating is a slow theft, and the description of "financial oppression" is apt.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#127

Post by zipiridu »

silisili wrote: post #58

As someone who does OK, but lives in reality (not the bay area), I feel a revolution coming. I hope it's not a violent one, but who knows at this point. Hopefully it's just a politician with big policy changes. People feel completely disenfranchised. You keep hanging housing over their head but just out of reach like some baby toy, then inflation spikes everything else. What's the point of working even? I don't know…

Watch Ray Dalio's videos on the long term debt cycle and how the economy works in general. Another interesting topic is what is called the "fourth turning" which sort of says that major changes happen around once a human lifecycle. We are going to have some major economic changes in the next decade, but no one knows how that will look. I think it's 50/50 whether it's violent or not.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#128

Post by thatguy0900 »

dnautics wrote: post #39

If it does, inflation has failed as a policy: https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/13/the-case-for-hi... "in the long run, it’s really, really hard to cut nominal wages. Yet when you have very low inflation, getting relative wages right would require that a significant number of workers take wage cuts. So having a somewhat higher inflation rate would lead to lower unemployment, not just temporarily, but on a sus…

This is how you get a labor shortage when a large portion of jobs are literally not worth doing. It was already a joke to work at minumum wage before this.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#129

Post by Kiro »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #52
tjpnz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience HR are never receptive to those types of arguments. If you want a raise the best thing you can do is find a new job.

The best thing you can do is organize your workplace. Job hopping allows businesses to eat the market at the edges and eventually squeeze those demands out of the labor pool.

Look at Sweden. The collectively bargained pay increase was below inflation in all sectors.

You should unionize for many reasons but I wouldn't trust it as an efficient tool for pay negotiations.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#130

Post by Tk6f3A6JkSxViFM »

LatteLazy wrote: post #100

This will be unpopular... If you want to make good pay, you have to make it happen. You have to change jobs occasionally (every 2 years). You have to suck up a bit to managers. You have to be at least average at your job. You have to manage your CV. And you have to negotiate. I'm not saying this is right or fair or nice. I'm just saying the vast majority of people I've worked with don't do any of those things (except…

The vast majority of the people you've worked with are at least average at their jobs?
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